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Board Game: Star Wars: Rebellion
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Subject: Finally! An FFG Star Wars game that's complete out of the box! rss

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Bobb Beauchamp
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Embir wrote:
Tarnop wrote:
Embir wrote:
It is FFG we are talking about.Long ago they abandoned idea that game can be complete out of the box - milking customer is the way to go for them. Most glaring example would be mentioned Descent. In 1st edition you get complete, fat game; 2nd edition is shattered into small overpriced expansions (Lieutenants, Co-op quests and dice sets being most glaring example). Also what is more concerning is the fact that their urge to force "DLC like" business model hurts quality of their games. Look at Eldritch Horror and how criminally chopped card decks were.
The last FFG games I bought were Mission Red Planet and Samurai. What was missing from those games?
I don't know, I never played or bought any of those games.
What I know though, is that in Battlelore 2ed. I got only 4 dice, in EH i got pathetic numer of cards and Descent co-op expansions costs about 20 euro in my country, and you pay this price for measly 30 cards.

You must be lying to yourself if you think those practices aren't milking of customers.
Some see it as milking customers. Others see it as good business sense. The biggest problem a game company faces is generating a reliable, continuous revenue stream. Traditionally (back in the glory Avalon Hill days) games were not sources of reliable income. You could expect to see a certain number of units, but then sales would taper off, until AH could design and release their next game.

Today, game companies understand that in addition to producing a fun, entertaining product, they need to generate a revenue stream, so production has shifted to include this. Many games are now designed to be expandable, allowing a publisher the chance to capture additional, continuous revenue from a single line for a much longer period. Gamers get more games, hopefully better games, and more content for their games, which I count as a win.

And as supported by at least FFG's catalog, they clear produce one offs, or games with limited expandability, to appeal to those that don't care to buy into a game system. Something for everyone.

True, this approach does include a fine line, where the publisher has to decide how much to include in the initial box, but overall, I'd say FFG has hit the sweet spot in this regard for most of their products. Runewars is an amazing game out of the box, made better by Banners of War. X-Wing's Core products give a great starter experience for the game at a fantastic price. Their LCG line allows players that crave CCG experiences to do so without forcing them to spend larger sums of money and accumulate thousands of unused cards in the process.
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Miroslav Krajcovic
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Quote:
Some of their "complete" games released in the last few years by FFG to which there are no expansions made and/or announced:
- Blue Moon Legend
- Cave Troll
- Fury of Dracula
- Merchant of Venus
- Mission red planet
- Planet steam
- Samurai
- Tigris and Euphrates
- Winter Tales
- X-Com: the board game
- The Witcher
- Forbidden Stars
- Lord of the Rings: Confrontation
- The Hobbit card game
- Star Wars Empire VS Rebellion
- Art of War
Hmm, maybe it's me, but most of the games in the complete game list are either games originally designed not by FFG, reimplementations, or we haven't waited long enough.

Don't get me wrong, I love expansions. whistle
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Ryan Hanson
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Where FFG has earned some very deserved component criticism in recent history is the shortages of dice in X-Wing, Armada, and Battlelore. The sale of dice packs for all three of these games after including insufficient dice in the original box was an absolute travesty; Armada is perhaps the worst, as you didn't even have enough blue dice for an X-Wing squadron to make a NORMAL anti-squadron attack, something that happens frequently even in the basic introductory scenario!!!

So that rant aside, I see that this game includes 10 dice, 5 of each color. Fingers crossed that this ends up being sufficient, but this is one area where FFG has lost some trust from me.
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ian short
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I don't have a problem with the big expansions ffg produces, some of them have the best value for money out of any ffg products.

Small expansions, especially POD and single figure packs, cost a lot for what you get. The 5 POD expansions for mansions of madness cost £75, for the same price I could have got the core set and a proper expansion.

Ffg does rip customers off some of the time, but that is outweighed by the value they provide most of the time.
 
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Murray MacPherson
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mulletcheese wrote:
Ffg does rip customers off some of the time, but that is outweighed by the value they provide most of the time.
Exactly, value is what we make of it as an individual. For example I paid £7 I think for the Boba Fett expansion for Imperial Assault but I get a lot of value from that.
Even just admiring and painting the model gets me all the value I need. Anything else such as playing with the model or playing the additional mission is just icing on the cake.
 
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I'm a firm supporter of FFG, which feels unusual because I'm normally a complete cynic. For me it's simply because they are pretty much solely providing everything I want from this hobby: good, solid games that are beautifully produced.

They are also producing their 'Euro Classics' line which makes me respect them hugely. Alongside more dice rolling 'pew pew' games that I LOVE like X-Wing, I can also, from the same publisher, buy Tigris and Euphrates and Samurai. They've nailed it for me.
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I keep throwing money at the screen but nothing is happening.....
please help..
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BertMcCloud wrote:
In all seriousness how "complete" is this likely to be out of the box?

I don't mind there being expansions but one of the reasons I didn't buy Imperial Assault was because it seemed as though I would instantly want to sink HUNDREDS into the expansions because there was something "missing"; when what I really wanted was something more like Descent where I would buy the base game as complete but then buy expansions because they were awesome.

Anyone genuinely know if this is going to be more like a Descent affair or an IA affair?
Imperial Assault is amazing out of the box as a campaign game. Not to be missed in my opinion. The expansions just add cool little options and the bigger ones give you more campaign to play. A very good deal compared to getting into DnD. A great RPG lite system.
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Tarnop wrote:
Embir wrote:
Tarnop wrote:
The last FFG games I bought were Mission Red Planet and Samurai. What was missing from those games?
I don't know, I never played or bought any of those games.
What I know though, is that in Battlelore 2ed. I got only 4 dice, in EH i got pathetic numer of cards and Descent co-op expansions costs about 20 euro in my country, and you pay this price for measly 30 cards.

You must be lying to yourself if you think those practices aren't milking of customers.
And slowly, we're arriving at my point. You're picking and choosing to support your argument, but it falls apart if you look at FFG's catalogue as a whole. The best comparison would be Forbidden Stars since that's also a space conquest game with lots of miniatures, and is complete and varied out of the box.
No, we are not arriving at your point, not even slightly. Even assuming that majority of FFG products aren't cut on purpose to cash on expansions it doesn't change the fact that in regard to Battlelore or Eldritch Horror FFG cut the content of the game, which should be in basic set, to force people to buying expansions. Also look at new Runebound, nice chop in numer of available heroes from 12 to 6 - I bet soon after base game will come out meaty heroes add-on.

Thus my point still stands, FFG is milking customers, maybe on a smaller scale than I claimed they do.

kingbobb wrote:

Today, game companies understand that in addition to producing a fun, entertaining product, they need to generate a revenue stream, so production has shifted to include this. Many games are now designed to be expandable, allowing a publisher the chance to capture additional, continuous revenue from a single line for a much longer period. Gamers get more games, hopefully better games, and more content for their games, which I count as a win.
I am all for expansions in games, it greatle extends game lifespan; what I am against is forcing customers to buy expansions by cutting off things that should be in base game, and FFG with some titles proved that they can do that.
 
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Embir wrote:
Thus my point still stands, FFG is milking customers, maybe on a smaller scale than I claimed they do.
Thus my point still stands that FFG have abandoned the idea of releasing a game that is complete! As long as you only look at these 3 games that I think prove my point!

Yes, if your point is entirely changed from what you stated originally then it still stands. Well done.
 
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Tarnop wrote:
Embir wrote:
Thus my point still stands, FFG is milking customers, maybe on a smaller scale than I claimed they do.
Thus my point still stands that FFG have abandoned the idea of releasing a game that is complete! As long as you only look at these 3 games that I think prove my point!

Yes, if your point is entirely changed from what you stated originally then it still stands. Well done.
My guess at the moment is that you don't know a thing known as hyperbole.
 
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I understand hyperbole perfectly well. The fact that hyperbole exists as a rhetorical technique doesn't change the fact that you've only been able to show us 3 games that even come close to supporting your point.

They just released Forbidden Stars. It was well received. This game is also (a) set in space, (b) a strategy game, and (c) full of minatures. What reason is there to suspect that we'll end up with a Forsaken Lore situation as opposed to a Forbidden Stars situation, other than what is clearly your personal axe to grind with the release model of Eldritch Horror?
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Tarnop wrote:
I understand hyperbole perfectly well. The fact that hyperbole exists as a rhetorical technique doesn't change the fact that you've only been able to show us 3 games that even come close to supporting your point.
Oh, so you are now the one deciding how many examples are enough to proves one's point? How much is enough for you, Your Honor?

Also, I commented on games that I personally own and played. Each game from FFG after Runewars that I bought had basic set chopped in some way - be it Descent, Battlelore or Eldritch. Thus my claims are pretty much well grounded in first hand experience.

I cannot comment on Forbidden Stars, because I never played this game. Maybe games that are complete experience for you wouldn't be like this for me.

 
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Embir wrote:
It is FFG we are talking about.Long ago they abandoned idea that game can be complete out of the box - milking customer is the way to go for them.
Your words not mine. Long ago, they abandoned the idea (apart from all these other games they've released that are complete out of the box).

But sure, keep moving the goalposts. They abandoned the idea of releasing a complete game! No wait, most of the games they release are incomplete. No, actually I just meant the games I own!

So yes, if your point was "Eldritch Horror was not complete straight out of the box" then you may be onto something. Extrapolating that to apply to future releases? Not so much, given that the vast majority of their games have not replicated that model.
 
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Tarnop wrote:
Embir wrote:
It is FFG we are talking about.Long ago they abandoned idea that game can be complete out of the box - milking customer is the way to go for them.
Your words not mine. Long ago, they abandoned the idea (apart from all these other games they've released that are complete out of the box).

But sure, keep moving the goalposts. They abandoned the idea of releasing a complete game! No wait, most of the games they release are incomplete. No, actually I just meant the games I own!
.
Yeah, you don't know what hyperbole is.
 
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Embir wrote:
Tarnop wrote:
Embir wrote:
It is FFG we are talking about.Long ago they abandoned idea that game can be complete out of the box - milking customer is the way to go for them.
Your words not mine. Long ago, they abandoned the idea (apart from all these other games they've released that are complete out of the box).

But sure, keep moving the goalposts. They abandoned the idea of releasing a complete game! No wait, most of the games they release are incomplete. No, actually I just meant the games I own!
.
Yeah, you don't know what hyperbole is.
So re-state your point without hyperbole and let's see how it holds up.
 
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