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Dungeon Saga: Dwarf King's Quest» Forums » Rules

Subject: Learning Feats rss

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Brad P
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The rules for learning feats appear to be designed to say that the downtime you learn the feat you cannot go to a location. In the learn feats the first thing it asks is are you under your limit with your current level(vs table) then has you collect your glory advance a level and learn the feat. This seems to imply that at the real cut offs are 1 Feat at level 2, 2 feats at level 6 and 3 at level 10. I think this is intentional but wanted to check in here.
 
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Martin Vetter
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eriochrome wrote:
The rules for learning feats appear to be designed to say that the downtime you learn the feat you cannot go to a location. In the learn feats the first thing it asks is are you under your limit with your current level(vs table) then has you collect your glory advance a level and learn the feat. This seems to imply that at the real cut offs are 1 Feat at level 2, 2 feats at level 6 and 3 at level 10. I think this is intentional but wanted to check in here.


I disagree. You have your starting feat at level 0.
Once you reach level 1,2,3 or 4 you can select a feat (Once you gain any of those levels) instead of choosing a normal level ability. The thing is, you have a choice of when to pick that first feat, depending on which level abilities you would like to have.
The table on p.73 shows how many feats you can posses while in a certain level range. I think the table is clear.
 
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seb seb2
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magikerendk wrote:


I disagree. You have your starting feat at level 0.


i am not sure about this.

p73 :Choosing Feats:
"a Hero's new feat can be freely chosen from either his racial feat or the general feats"


For me,this mean that you don't have you racial feat when you are at level 0.
 
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Martin Vetter
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Belsamoreth wrote:
magikerendk wrote:


I disagree. You have your starting feat at level 0.


i am not sure about this.

p73 :Choosing Feats:
"a Hero's new feat can be freely chosen from either his racial feat or the general feats"


For me,this mean that you don't have you racial feat when you are at level 0.


Nice one! Haven't seen that. That makes totally sense. So you can choose your racial feat once you reach level 1 if you like.
 
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Brad P
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Belsamoreth wrote:
magikerendk wrote:


I disagree. You have your starting feat at level 0.


i am not sure about this.



Find me some where that says I get a starting feat. I searched the whole document with the search tool for feat. I did not find it.
 
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Brad P
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magikerendk wrote:
Belsamoreth wrote:
magikerendk wrote:


I disagree. You have your starting feat at level 0.


i am not sure about this.

p73 :Choosing Feats:
"a Hero's new feat can be freely chosen from either his racial feat or the general feats"


For me,this mean that you don't have you racial feat when you are at level 0.


Nice one! Haven't seen that. That makes totally sense. So you can choose your racial feat once you reach level 1 if you like.


After you win a quest when you are already level one (or picked up extra glory some how)
 
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Brad P
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The character creation rules are also a mess. Everything in this books is a mess. The details are there but you need to read all the way through the advancement section to know what the hell is going on.
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Martin Vetter
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I still think you can choose a feat the moment you become level 1. This is clearly the rules intention. Otherwise the table is plain stupid (which of course is another option).

eriochrome wrote:
magikerendk wrote:
Belsamoreth wrote:
magikerendk wrote:


I disagree. You have your starting feat at level 0.


i am not sure about this.

p73 :Choosing Feats:
"a Hero's new feat can be freely chosen from either his racial feat or the general feats"


For me,this mean that you don't have you racial feat when you are at level 0.


Nice one! Haven't seen that. That makes totally sense. So you can choose your racial feat once you reach level 1 if you like.


After you win a quest when you are already level one (or picked up extra glory some how)
 
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Brad P
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You do not advance to level 1 until after you check to see if you are eligible to learn the feat.

Earning a feat is a rare type of
experience boost. The number of
feats a Hero can know is based
on their current level:
Level 1-4: 1 feat
Level 5-8: 2 feats
Level 9-10: 3 feats
During Downtime, a Hero can
learn a new feat if he hasn’t
already reached his current limit
and has enough Glory to advance
a level
during this Downtime.
 
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Martin Vetter
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I think the intension is TO KNOW. So at level 1 you should be able TO KNOW 1 feat. Taking things in the compendium too literally would destroy LoS as well. So

eriochrome wrote:
You do not advance to level 1 until after you check to see if you are eligible to learn the feat.

Earning a feat is a rare type of
experience boost. The number of
feats a Hero can know is based
on their current level:
Level 1-4: 1 feat
Level 5-8: 2 feats
Level 9-10: 3 feats
During Downtime, a Hero can
learn a new feat if he hasn’t
already reached his current limit
and has enough Glory to advance
a level
during this Downtime.
 
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Brad P
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Honestly how do we know what was intended. This book is like the a 50-50 crap shoot if you are not just in the rules copied from the core box.
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seb seb2
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yeah it's simple for me:

you are at level zero,you have one glory:
downtime : you become level 1 and can choose one 1 feat or a new skill from you skill/racial tree.
 
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Brad P
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Belsamoreth wrote:
yeah it's simple for me:

you are at level zero,you have one glory:
downtime : you become level 1 and can choose one 1 feat or a new skill from you skill/racial tree.


The problem with the presentation is that while there is a little listed order of how you do things he forgot to tell me where to assign the players their glory. It is not automatic as they have to have complete the quest. The item on the list that most relates to quest glory is the experience step which comes after checking if you can get a feat. It is also on the Experience page to which you are directed on the list that the Glory and level stuff is assigned. Glory and level check should probably be explicitly done at step 1 of the downtime instead of step X.

The other issue with the clarity is the difference between gaining a level and taking the experience. This lack of clarity makes it unclear if you can bank the advancement and use it later like at a different location while you are still the same level as it takes more adventures to gain levels later on so you could be waiting for just the right location to show up.

This might be more of an issue for me due to word choice as I have been playing D&D off and on since I was old enough to fill in a character sheet on my own.

D&D DS
Experience Glory
Level Level
"Leveling UP" Experience

In DS, the Level is just a number which converts a Glory value to a rank. Experience is the process of actually taking the advancements that improve the character what in D&D we used to call leveling up.

For learning your feat, you have to make that decision before you even see the locations options. I think he put the feat section in the list at the point (3), it is to make it doubly clear that the player cannot also go to a location in step (4) but since some locations allow for glory to be accumulated the step where you check if you have gained a level is step (5) where it actually says:

Calculate your Hero’s
experience (see page 71).

Ofcourse locations like the feat step also allow you to take your advancement that you actually do not know if you got until the next step.

It just seems bad to write a 1,2,3,4,5 list and then not follow it without specific instructions other than it does not seem to make sense. I think we would love a 1,2,3,4,5 list in the AI section.
 
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Martin Vetter
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eriochrome wrote:
Belsamoreth wrote:
yeah it's simple for me:

you are at level zero,you have one glory:
downtime : you become level 1 and can choose one 1 feat or a new skill from you skill/racial tree.


The problem with the presentation is that while there is a little listed order of how you do things he forgot to tell me where to assign the players their glory. It is not automatic as they have to have complete the quest. The item on the list that most relates to quest glory is the experience step which comes after checking if you can get a feat. It is also on the Experience page to which you are directed on the list that the Glory and level stuff is assigned. Glory and level check should probably be explicitly done at step 1 of the downtime instead of step X.

The other issue with the clarity is the difference between gaining a level and taking the experience. This lack of clarity makes it unclear if you can bank the advancement and use it later like at a different location while you are still the same level as it takes more adventures to gain levels later on so you could be waiting for just the right location to show up.

This might be more of an issue for me due to word choice as I have been playing D&D off and on since I was old enough to fill in a character sheet on my own.

D&D DS
Experience Glory
Level Level
"Leveling UP" Experience

In DS, the Level is just a number which converts a Glory value to a rank. Experience is the process of actually taking the advancements that improve the character what in D&D we used to call leveling up.

For learning your feat, you have to make that decision before you even see the locations options. I think he put the feat section in the list at the point (3), it is to make it doubly clear that the player cannot also go to a location in step (4) but since some locations allow for glory to be accumulated the step where you check if you have gained a level is step (5) where it actually says:

Calculate your Hero’s
experience (see page 71).

Ofcourse locations like the feat step also allow you to take your advancement that you actually do not know if you got until the next step.

It just seems bad to write a 1,2,3,4,5 list and then not follow it without specific instructions other than it does not seem to make sense. I think we would love a 1,2,3,4,5 list in the AI section.


I see sense in what you are saying here. If a hero gains Glory from a location he clearly can't take a feat that Downtime.
However, under Gaining Glory on p.71 it says "After each adventure, every Hero on the winning side gains 1 Glory." Nowhere is a delay of this glorygain mentioned - so, the gain of Glory is immediate upon completion of an adventure as winners.
If the player then reach Level 1 for instance, he may take a feat OR do Location and then Experience afterwards.
 
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Brad P
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Page 69 item 5 in the ordered sequential downtime lists says:

Calculate your Hero’s
experience (see page 71).

But you do not calculate experience. Experience is the process that generates the new abilities. It is not a number. But that page as you note and the experience section just happens to be the same page and first reference glory in the Campaigns section.

If I go through the directions listed the first time it tells me about glory is when I go to the section in step 5. I think it is again just bad presentation or organization like in the character generation where if you actually do not read the section from front to back and then back to front you could do it wrong.

 
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