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Shakka
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... the kickstarter, the Adventurers Companion, how your stuff was packed in the box, etc.

Play it, and then write what you did enjoy and what you didnt.

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Olli T
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That's what I did.

For now I gave it a generous rating of 9.0, after a few days of playing. I have really enjoyed every minute (wasn't sure about that at all while waiting). Maybe I need to re-calibrate the rating later when I have played more with & without friends and seen all the content the game has to offer. Or maybe not.

This is actually a good game.
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Silver Bowen
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The Adventurer's Companion is part of the game, no? (And a rather large part for some of us.)
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Simon Barnes
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Absolutely. I may have been stiffed but if it plays well then I wouldn't want to see potential buyers put off by an artificially low rating.

We can vote with our wallets when Mantic launches future Kickstarters.
 
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Brad P
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simon_j_barnes wrote:
Absolutely. I may have been stiffed but if it plays well then I wouldn't want to see potential buyers put off by an artificially low rating.

We can vote with our wallets when Mantic launches future Kickstarters.


BGG needs manufacture ratings and the expansions need to be added (or better/clearly linked)
 
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Mike Miller

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silverbowen wrote:
The Adventurer's Companion is part of the game, no? (And a rather large part for some of us.)

It's the main part for me, as I intend to play cooperatively, but it being difficult to navigate isn't going to bother me. The Myth rulebook was missing actual rules, tables, definitions, etc- that was pretty unforgivable for me; but the DS AC seems to just have cosmetic issues. I haven't seen anything (so far) that implies a rule is missing or incorrect.
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Brad P
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pinkymadigan wrote:
silverbowen wrote:
The Adventurer's Companion is part of the game, no? (And a rather large part for some of us.)

It's the main part for me, as I intend to play cooperatively, but it being difficult to navigate isn't going to bother me. The Myth rulebook was missing actual rules, tables, definitions, etc- that was pretty unforgivable for me; but the DS AC seems to just have cosmetic issues. I haven't seen anything (so far) that implies a rule is missing or incorrect.


The random dungeons seem to have no scaling for hero number/level. I assume the threats for 0 level heroes should be different than level 10 heroes. They also last 5 turns total if played as written.
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Matt Price
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silverbowen wrote:
The Adventurer's Companion is part of the game, no? (And a rather large part for some of us.)


Isn't it an expansion? Or does the AC come with the retail version? There seem to be no expansions added to the data base yet. That would be a shame if people rate the game based on the AC
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Kelvin Green
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silverbowen wrote:
The Adventurer's Companion is part of the game, no? (And a rather large part for some of us.)


I don't think it is. When the game goes on sale, I believe TAC will be sold as a separate product, so out of fairness it should probably be reviewed as such.
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Mike Miller

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eriochrome wrote:
The random dungeons seem to have no scaling for hero number/level. I assume the threats for 0 level heroes should be different than level 10 heroes.


Should be easy enough to modify I would think. The alternate modes seem written in a 'ideas for consideration' type way.

eriochrome wrote:
They also last 5 turns total if played as written.


4 cards recommended, but you can use as many as you want. Each has a few tiles. Not sure where you are getting that number from? Seems like 4 cards should be enough for a session. Boss could be in any zone after the first, but if you are playing with more cards and feel the dungeon should be longer, just don't roll to see if the boss is in a zone until later maybe?

I guess it may depend on the event card's victory conditions. I don't have it yet, but just judging by the ruleset it looks flexible enough. 2x number of cards in dungeon deck for max number of turns.

Remembering that these modes are supplementary to the main mode of the game, it seems designed to allow flexibility. I know I railed against the flexibility in Myth, but that was magnified by the fact that the game provided no initial structure to work with and the game was missing rules. I think I'm okay with what I see in the DS ruleset so far (we'll see when the cards and everything else gets here, of course).
 
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Brad P
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2 Overlord cards per Uncharted Card (4 suggest Uncharted Cards for average adventure), Draw Three Overlord Cards at start as per standard rules, leaves 5 cards in the deck for the game timer. The starter adventures that seem like 1 uncharted dungeon card have like what 10-12 overlord cards. Seems like 3 is the proper number to place in the overlord deck. That allows the overlord to draw and you get about 2 turns for each zone so one to clear and one to open the next door.
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Mike Miller

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Hmmm, yeah, something seems missing there, I forgot about the 3. When playing full co-op, do you even use the command cards though? I think it looks almost like it was written for full co-op, but then switched to reference the wrong cards? If it meant 8 IO cards (at one per turn), that seems more reasonable as a starting point.
 
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They certainly were not sold during the kickstarter as ideas for consideration. I am sure after playing enough games I will be instantaneously able to judge whether for a threat 3 or threat 15 card I should actually use all the threat or actually increase it but given that the design has already played all those games in testing the missions one might think he has a feel for it. The threat values do not really seem linear since a 10 level hero is not worth 10 1st level ones with a game of finite actions.
 
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pinkymadigan wrote:
Hmmm, yeah, something seems missing there, I forgot about the 3. When playing full co-op, do you even use the command cards though? I think it looks almost like it was written for full co-op, but then switched to reference the wrong cards? If it meant 8 IO cards (at one per turn), that seems more reasonable as a starting point.


In the AI with 4 heros you go through 5 AI cards a turn. 1 between each hero turn to check for an interrupt, 1 that is essentially the normal overlord turn and one that is essentially the overlord command card.

You still probably need to run the normal overlord deck purely as a timer (or could use counter or some other way). I think the base mission balance breaks down without the extra time constraints.

The AI system seems like it will work fine but desperately needed some models on the board examples. The whole back of the book suffers from that. The design a dungeon section is fine reading but while he was doing his philosophical discussion he should have been going through the process from one of the missions to actually share some of the details in action.
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Mike Miller

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eriochrome wrote:
pinkymadigan wrote:
Hmmm, yeah, something seems missing there, I forgot about the 3. When playing full co-op, do you even use the command cards though? I think it looks almost like it was written for full co-op, but then switched to reference the wrong cards? If it meant 8 IO cards (at one per turn), that seems more reasonable as a starting point.


In the AI with 4 heros you go through 5 AI cards a turn. 1 between each hero turn to check for an interrupt, 1 that is essentially the normal overlord turn and one that is essentially the overlord command card.

You still probably need to run the normal overlord deck purely as a timer (or could use counter or some other way). I think the base mission balance breaks down without the extra time constraints.

The AI system seems like it will work fine but desperately needed some models on the board examples. The whole back of the book suffers from that. The design a dungeon section is fine reading but while he was doing his philosophical discussion he should have been going through the process from one of the missions to actually share some of the details in action.


Right, forgot about the interrupts. Not sure. I'm sure I'll come up with something myself or they will address it. The IO was on a lot of people's wishlist, so it definitely will be a FAQ.
 
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Brad P
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pinkymadigan wrote:
eriochrome wrote:
pinkymadigan wrote:
Hmmm, yeah, something seems missing there, I forgot about the 3. When playing full co-op, do you even use the command cards though? I think it looks almost like it was written for full co-op, but then switched to reference the wrong cards? If it meant 8 IO cards (at one per turn), that seems more reasonable as a starting point.


In the AI with 4 heros you go through 5 AI cards a turn. 1 between each hero turn to check for an interrupt, 1 that is essentially the normal overlord turn and one that is essentially the overlord command card.

You still probably need to run the normal overlord deck purely as a timer (or could use counter or some other way). I think the base mission balance breaks down without the extra time constraints.

The AI system seems like it will work fine but desperately needed some models on the board examples. The whole back of the book suffers from that. The design a dungeon section is fine reading but while he was doing his philosophical discussion he should have been going through the process from one of the missions to actually share some of the details in action.


Right, forgot about the interrupts. Not sure. I'm sure I'll come up with something myself or they will address it. The IO was on a lot of people's wishlist, so it definitely will be a FAQ.


This book is somewhere between and alpha and a beta draft. The ideas are there, some need a little more work, and the presentation needs to be improved. Character Creation seems like a great example they have lots there but if you start at the front of that chapter and try to make a character it starts to get tricky.

I go to page 33. First thing pick a race. So I pick my race and go to the race to get the info. Say I want human. I go to the human page. First thing I see is my racial feat. Oh cool this must be my starting feat. Then the next thing is in a red box. What does that mean? Red Boxes in other parts are for discussion like the difference between Heroes and Bosses on page 34. Not sure skip it. Next thing is starting stats that is pretty clear. Write those down. Next I get the table with levels and options starts. Not sure what this is. They have not mentioned anything like it so I also write down the Lvl 1 option since it is the first on the list. I go back to 33 and note that he just write down starting stats but there were 2 things above that. Oh well go on to class.

The classes are presented a little better with stat modifiers and things in one box and the option table below (but then often text about spell selection below that). The rules do not say to apply these modifiers but that is assumed. Now maybe I understand option I have to pick one of these 3 abilities for my level 1 starting hero so I decide which one sounds best and take that. Then I spells and the bonus and I am ready to go with my starting character.

My buddy comes over with his guy you turns out to be the same race and class. But he has no feats or options. Don't you know characters start at level 0. That feat has to be selected as an advancement later it is not free. How do you know? Its in campaigns on page 73. And that red box ignored that is my starting ability. But wait none of the humans in the base missions have this ability and they all start with feats. They are special you have to look at the example new hero 20 pages after the character generation rules where the process described uses like twice the length.
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David Hoffman
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kelvingreen wrote:
silverbowen wrote:
The Adventurer's Companion is part of the game, no? (And a rather large part for some of us.)


I don't think it is. When the game goes on sale, I believe TAC will be sold as a separate product, so out of fairness it should probably be reviewed as such.


Then I think the bigger question is, will the retail version (if that's a thing) be corrected? If so, will Mantic be offering some sort of incentive / discount to backers who'd like to get a corrected version?
 
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Kelvin Green
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ohbalto wrote:
Then I think the bigger question is, will the retail version (if that's a thing) be corrected? If so, will Mantic be offering some sort of incentive / discount to backers who'd like to get a corrected version?


That is indeed one of the questions of the moment. Mantic is being quiet on that so far but I suspect that corrected versions will be put on sale; what gets offered to us backers will be interesting to see.
 
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Rick Vinyard
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kelvingreen wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
Then I think the bigger question is, will the retail version (if that's a thing) be corrected? If so, will Mantic be offering some sort of incentive / discount to backers who'd like to get a corrected version?


That is indeed one of the questions of the moment. Mantic is being quiet on that so far but I suspect that corrected versions will be put on sale; what gets offered to us backers will be interesting to see.

I don't think Mantic being quiet is a problem, and I don't expect a quick fix.

In fact, I'd prefer they don't do a quick fix. I'd prefer that they finish shipping, get shipping errors and shorts corrected, monitor community feedback, compile a list of errors and have a single, organized, well-thought out errata/reprint.

That's the slow approach that you generally see from publishers like Fantasy Flight, and I don't have a problem if Mantic takes the same approach.
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Ciaran M
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100% agree Rick

The only thing Mantic need to come out quick with is a fully detailed comment/press release advising that there is going to be a well thought out fix for all this, how they are going to manage it with the community on board and that it will take some time.


If they'd said this at the start and split their shipments - the base game first, which is being universally greeted with positivity, followed by 2nd shipment of Adv Companion and some expansions - there may have been a little fuss with that sort of decision but not at the level of shit-storm that is flailing around now.

Focus on getting the confirmed good parts out to backers and build the positive message whilst reinforcing (and it needs to be constantly!) that reparations for all issues will be forthcoming.
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rvinyard wrote:
kelvingreen wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
Then I think the bigger question is, will the retail version (if that's a thing) be corrected? If so, will Mantic be offering some sort of incentive / discount to backers who'd like to get a corrected version?


That is indeed one of the questions of the moment. Mantic is being quiet on that so far but I suspect that corrected versions will be put on sale; what gets offered to us backers will be interesting to see.

I don't think Mantic being quiet is a problem, and I don't expect a quick fix.

In fact, I'd prefer they don't do a quick fix. I'd prefer that they finish shipping, get shipping errors and shorts corrected, monitor community feedback, compile a list of errors and have a single, organized, well-thought out errata/reprint.

That's the slow approach that you generally see from publishers like Fantasy Flight, and I don't have a problem if Mantic takes the same approach.


Perfectly reasonable. But then they should probably have done a little better job on the communication on the front end and probably made sure the digital copy did not still have obvious typos like replacing one of the XXX with the wrong page number and missing one of the [insert image] references.
 
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kelvingreen wrote:
silverbowen wrote:
The Adventurer's Companion is part of the game, no? (And a rather large part for some of us.)


I don't think it is. When the game goes on sale, I believe TAC will be sold as a separate product, so out of fairness it should probably be reviewed as such.


The game was on sale rather a while ago, on Kickstarter. I preordered my copy then (haven't got it yet, however). The copy I will be getting includes a bunch of expansions and extras, among them the Adventurer's Companion. To me, "the game" is all the stuff Mantic hawked during the campaign, not the small subset of the game that has been sequestered out and packaged as the core set (or whatever the designation is). I see no problem with rating the game as a whole, rather than just a small portion of the game's retail groupings. Especially considering there is no separate place to post such a rating.

So yeah, the AC is part of the game.
 
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Brian C
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I wouldn't give the game a rating just based on the kickstarter situation -- a rating ofcourse should be reserved for how the game itself plays.

Instead I'll just obstain from rating it at all and hopefully find a good home for my pledge. I was just in it for that cool looking AC and all the mysterious wonders it was going to hold.

..

...

shake
 
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The core set is what the main BGG page is for, it's also the retail version. All the expansions including the AC need their own BGG pages. It's doing a disservice to everyone involved if the base game, which is getting consistent high marks, is dragged down by poor execution on the expansions.

So just because we backers are all getting the AC and many of us fully intend to use it, it doesn't mean we should trash DS as a whole because Mantic rushed the AC out the door.
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Shakalaka wrote:
... the kickstarter, the Adventurers Companion, how your stuff was packed in the box, etc.

Play it, and then write what you did enjoy and what you didnt.

I'm pretty sure people can rate games without your help.
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