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Lagoon: Land of Druids» Forums » General

Subject: Is starting player always a winner? rss

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Ania B. Ziolkowska
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I've played that game 23 times already and as I find that game most interesting for two players only I played 20 of those plays as two player game.

However I've noticed that in majority of this plays, player who goes first always wins. Of course unless first player is someone who plays first time and have no idea how to use actions. But when both players are equally experienced then game is always won by the player who went first.

I wonder if other players experienced similar thing?
 
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Brett Burleigh II
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Bless the Maker and His water... Bless the coming and going of Him... May His passage cleanse the world...
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I've played nearly as many times, but each of them solo.

In fact, I'm yet to face a human player… >.>

I don't think a 4 player game sounds exciting.
But a 2 or 3P game does sound exciting…

I think it depends - if you spend too much time "building" your engine, and another player deconstructs it, that could put you behind the ball… Sometimes, it takes forever to get a reliable engine up and running.

Definitely interesting.. I wonder what other folks feel, too...
 
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Ania B. Ziolkowska
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And I yet to give a try solo game.

I played with different opponents and we often played once, and then second time but with switched sides. So winning by starting player stick out a bit.

I'm thinking of some kind of home rules for first turn for a starting player. Maybe that will balance my situation.
 
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Mike
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Not at all. It's about 50/50 for us after 10 games.
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Anthony Gambatese
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11 games here with 3 players ... start player won 9 of them ... think I need to fix this a little ...
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David Harrison
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AniaZ wrote:
I'm thinking of some kind of home rules for first turn for a starting player. Maybe that will balance my situation.


I haven't paid enough attention to be able to say whether or not first player has a large advantage. I just wanted to point out that there's no need to think of some elaborate house rule(s) to try to balance first player advantage; instead, use a simple fix called the "pie" rule or "swap" rule which is well-known in games where the first player has a massive advantage (see Mancala AKA Kalah)

Basically, on the second player's first turn (and only then) they have the option of either taking their turn normally or choosing to become the first player (i.e. the players essentially swap pieces). It's great because you don't need to fiddle around with trying to precisely balance first-player advantage (which players often overcompensate for); the pie rule takes care of all that.

Edit: Just realized this doesn't account for the 3-player game blush. Something similar would probably work fine though.
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Ania B. Ziolkowska
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Never tried that kind of house rule before. Thanks for the idea. I will definitely give it a try and report back!

coblackmagus wrote:
AniaZ wrote:
I'm thinking of some kind of home rules for first turn for a starting player. Maybe that will balance my situation.


I haven't paid enough attention to be able to say whether or not first player has a large advantage. I just wanted to point out that there's no need to think of some elaborate house rule(s) to try to balance first player advantage; instead, use a simple fix called the "pie" rule or "swap" rule which is well-known in games where the first player has a massive advantage (see Mancala AKA Kalah)

Basically, on the second player's first turn (and only then) they have the option of either taking their turn normally or choosing to become the first player (i.e. the players essentially swap pieces). It's great because you don't need to fiddle around with trying to precisely balance first-player advantage (which players often overcompensate for); the pie rule takes care of all that.

Edit: Just realized this doesn't account for the 3-player game blush. Something similar would probably work fine though.
 
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Brett MacDonald
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It's always a danger when you have a game that ends as soon as the last tile is taken. You can't ensure people have the same number of turns which inherently favors going first. Not to mention the person who goes first has a slightly better chance to control the better color/tiles.

Another way to address this is to have the game end trigger as soon as their are 3 or less tiles in the bag. At that point you continue play until everyone has had equal number of turns... and done.

That said this does seem to impact 2 player games more than 3 player ones. I have played exclusively 3 player games and our winners more often come down to the color wheel. More than half the time 2 players are competing in the winning color and crushing the poor fool who ended up being in a different color. Usually this is because one color quickly becomes a losing battle and the player who was leaning that way switches... and whoever they don't join is too vested in their color at that point to come back. My favorite games are the ones where all 3 colors are competing and in the game... but those are not as common I find.

 
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Brett McLay
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I figured I'd say something because I'm thinking of buying and dissecting this game.

Also: 'because two others named "Brett" replied to this thread.
 
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Ania B. Ziolkowska
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bgmclay wrote:
I figured I'd say something because I'm thinking of buying and dissecting this game.

Also: 'because two others named "Brett" replied to this thread.


I'm glad You poke that thread, as I completely forgot to report back on the subject.

So... I admit we haven't played this game many times after the first failure, we only tried swapping method David mentioned above two times so I don't think that amount is relevant to observe if something really changed.

It didn't change much for us and we haven't played that game anymore since.
 
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Jerry Tresman
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AniaZ wrote:
bgmclay wrote:
I figured I'd say something because I'm thinking of buying and dissecting this game.

Also: 'because two others named "Brett" replied to this thread.


I'm glad You poke that thread, as I completely forgot to report back on the subject.

So... I admit we haven't played this game many times after the first failure, we only tried swapping method David mentioned above two times so I don't think that amount is relevant to observe if something really changed.

It didn't change much for us and we haven't played that game anymore since.


On last tile any remaing players get to receive a random tile from any of their unravelled tiles , it still counts as unravelled so perhaps use a seed marker to represent it.

 
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