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Vietnam 1965-1975» Forums » Rules

Subject: Political Sections Revisited rss

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Robert Brown
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Shoreview
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I have another question:
The rules (5.4 "THE COMBAT RATIO") state:
If all the units attacking a given target hex in any manner other than bombardment (7.5) have a GCS of 0, the attacking units are all automatically destroyed (no die is rolled; the units are simply removed from the map).
Therefore, zero strength units may attack.
But in the political section rule (10. "POLITICAL SECTIONS"):
If an attack is announced against a hex containing only a political section, or if a political section moving alone is ever forced into an incidental attack, the section is immediately destroyed.
This implies that political section my not voluntarily choose to attack, but it does not so state. Since the number of attacks are important, indeed the raison d'ĂȘtre for an offensive, this fact is key.
My reading is that they may attack, and their attacks count toward the offensive's total? Does anyone see it differently?
 
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Robert Brown
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Okay, may I have to argue with myself here...
The last sentence in the POLITICAL SECTIONS rule reads:
Political sections are destroyed after an attack has been announced, but before it takes place.
I guess this means that the attack did not take place, so isn't counted toward the offensive's total attacks.
Or not.
Anybody?
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Fred Buchholz
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suhiir wrote:
Okay, may I have to argue with myself here...
The last sentence in the POLITICAL SECTIONS rule reads:
Political sections are destroyed after an attack has been announced, but before it takes place.
I guess this means that the attack did not take place, so isn't counted toward the offensive's total attacks.
Or not.
Anybody?
I would agree that last sentence sets a "special" case for political sections. The most important of these is when the US/ARVN attack one they don't get the benefit of pursuit movement and the operation ends.
That usually wastes some support points to no effect. The down side they can't contribute to an offensive. But then again I could be wrong, I play it they can't voluntarily attack.
 
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Mark Evans
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suhiir wrote:
Does anyone see it differently?
I see some grey in the rules on this issue, but the way the rules are worded and the way the game feels it would seem that you could not voluntarily attack with a political section. That is my opinion on the matter.

I don't remember a old thread on this issue, can you point to it?
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Robert Brown
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Mark: Oddly enough it was started by you in January 2012:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/8230116#8230116
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Robert Brown
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drmark64 wrote:
[q="suhiir"]
I don't remember a old thread on this issue, can you point to it?
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/8230116#8230116
 
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Mark McG
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my gut feeling is Political Sections cannot attack and are destroyed if forced to prior to any attack. They aren't a way to boost attack number in an offensive.
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Petri P
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Always played that if they tried to attack, they would evaporate instantly, without actually having attacked.

 
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Bob A

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petrip wrote:

Always played that if they tried to attack, they would evaporate instantly, without actually having attacked.
I do the same.
 
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Mark Evans
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suhiir wrote:
Mark: Oddly enough it was started by you in January 2012:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/8230116#8230116
Well how about that... I was really new to the game back then.
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craig grinnell
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drmark64 wrote:
suhiir wrote:
Mark: Oddly enough it was started by you in January 2012:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/8230116#8230116
Well how about that... I was really new to the game back then.
Oh don't fret, I often forget what I said 10 minutes ago
 
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Robert Brown
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Okay, I concur. They may not attack, and when forced to (incidental combat) they are destroyed prior to the die roll. Thus, no attack.
 
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Curt Chambers

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I agree with the general consensus here. The Offensive rules state that a combat die has to be rolled to get credit for an attack. Since politicals are destroyed w/o a die roll no attack takes place.
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Robert Brown
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Wow, we're a big, happy family even though we're always discussing the Vietnam War over the dinner table. If only the rest of America (and the world!) could emulate us.laugh
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Bob A

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Wait, so as a corollary to this, say you had some political sections, could you activate them for a S&D, make the US commit air points, then just move them away from the target hex, thereby not engaging in an actual attack and keep the sections alive?

I've never played it this way -- never thought of doing it.
 
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Mark Evans
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Randy and I did that all the time. There are other tricky strategies around fake offensives.
 
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Robert Brown
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I thought that was the whole point! Make the US dissipate their air points. Also, even if you make a really weak attack, every 6th roll, probably, kills an air point -- but not if you can't lure them into using the things.
 
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