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Subject: Three Years Gone: Review in Progress rss

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Montgomery Mullen
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Having begun my first game of KD:M, I wanted to offer a stage-by-stage review of impressions and thoughts on the system as the game goes on. There may be some spoilers presented here, but I'm largely glossing specifics on the gameplay, so readers take your chances.

I purchased the game as a preorder; I still found the price tag prohibitive, but I was intrigued by what I saw in the game and I have a strong belief in supporting independent artists. I will always be more willing to shell out some extra dollars for that kind of personal, artist-controlled project.

However, this game is not worth $400.

To cover how much I've gone through so far, my settlement (House of Pain) has been through three Lantern Years. I paused after setting things up for their encounter with the Butcher on year 4, and I have a strong suspicion from what I've heard and read here on BGG that it is not going to go well for my survivors.

I called the settlement House of Pain because these first four survivors sure bring it. The prologue white lion got stomped despite an attempt at a comeback when he had one AI card left (though I will attribute that to just ridiculous luck on rolls). They have had similar success with both of their other hunts (both lions again), and though we've had some close calls, I haven't had any serious injuries or deaths.

This is good, because apparently my settlement hasn't figured out how to do that intimacy thing yet. I'm hoping to get Family as my next innovation. Currently, the House of Pain has Language, Symposium, Hovel and Paint. It has, in addition to the Lantern Hoard, the Catarium, Skinnery, Organ Grinder, and Bone Smith.

There are many parts of KD:M that I find engaging and interesting. There are small touches to the design that I really appreciate (for example, mechanical benefit for naming your survivors).

Monster AI is really very well done, making each hunt showdown quite different and there is a definite 'feel' to how a white lion behaves and reacts. You quickly learn to avoid having people in front of one while fighting, for example. Similarly, there is a lot of creativity in hit locations and their results (hit or fail), which adds another layer of variety to the business of killing a monster. I'm looking forward to hunting the antelope in the future, and I can already see that the fight with the Butcher is going to be profoundly different from what I've faced down so far.

The linking of disparate elements and the attention to detail and synergy in KD:M is excellent. The pieces of the game mesh closely with each other, providing a connected whole between the settlement, hunting and exploration parts of the game. The ease with which the game leads you along the trails you blaze is quite clever; innovations tell you which innovation types are accessed, events triggering changes and decisions are laid out nicely.

The game has a large pile of variation and replay value. The game provides structure with the basic story framework of the lantern year calendar, but each story is going to be profoundly different. Expansions will no doubt add much, much more, but even as is, I can easily see a good number of very different games with just the base set.

Overall, there is a feel to the game that does encourage the human need to fill in the gaps and explain. The narrative structure provided by the event calendar gives a good sense of plot, of events that will occur regardless of your decisions. The decisions you do get to make have a tangible effect on your survivors from a mechanical standpoint, influencing your gameplay. It is two shades away from being an actual RPG in this way, and I can easily see how it might be translated into RPG terms... though frankly, I would recommend a much more narrative-focused RPG structure than the heavily statistics based game it is now.

Lastly, the quality of components is top tier. People have already sung their praises about this, so I don't feel obligated to go into detail.

All that said, I do have criticisms about the game.

If this were an RPG, it would be immediately branded as 'Gygaxian'. Want to go outside? Roll on a chart. Want to eat the food? Roll on the chart. Want to pick up a plant? Roll on a chart. And everywhere, there is the looming threat of completely arbitrary death. Though I understand that uncertainty is a big part of KD:M, the amount of chart consultation and card pulling in this game is excessive, and particularly so when you have separate card decks/charts for everything.

Likewise, as much as I have enjoyed the tactical aspects of combat in the game, it is not very elegant in terms of resolution. You effectively have to randomize three times to inflict a single wound on a monster (roll to hit, draw location, roll to damage). Fortunately, combat makes up for this in other ways, but at the moment it still feels somewhat clumsy.

Further, with the huge pile of randomization, game setup must be carefully considered. This game, as is, takes up a huge amount of table space and ample time arranging or swapping out components. As an example, any hunt will need selection of AI deck, sorting of AI deck, shuffling, selection, reshuffling.

The business of charts and randomization brings me to the rulebook. I'm going to attach a proviso here; as a former job, I used to appraise books for a living, so I have a certain bias. Overall, the rulebook is good if somewhat disorganized. There are places where terminology is not explained immediately, page references should be present when none are, and I felt as if there were assumptions made about the reader's knowledge of the game when any rule book should be written with the idea that the reader knows -nothing- whatsoever about the game. Lastly, this rulebook is going to be consulted constantly. High quality paper takes a toll on glue bindings, and for the investment, I would have expected a stitch binding and a sturdier cover.

I highly, highly recommend that the KD:M crew release a PDF copy of the rulebook. I see no logical reason why they shouldn't.

Overall, I have enjoyed the gameplay, but I have a sense that this game was not blind play-tested enough. The number of rules questions springing up on the forums and the ambiguities that I discovered early in the game support my opinion.

In summation, this game is good. My experience with it so far has been positive. I understand that this is an art project as much as it is a game, and I applaud Adam Poots and his success with Kickstarter, because this is exactly the sort of project that Kickstarter should be for. No gaming publisher I know would have taken this game on, in my opinion. That said, it is not worth $400 by any stretch of the imagination, and I cannot recommend it for anything more than $200, maybe 250 if you are feeling generous. I am not a miniatures hobbyist though I appreciate well-made minis quite a bit, so that may color your own take on the game, but I think that the Poots crew may have been pricing things much more along the 'collectible minis' line as opposed to the boardgame line... which is where KD:M really resides. It is far and away more of a card-and-dice game than a minis game.

I will revise my review as needed as my game progresses and offer further insights, offering a final assessment after I complete year 25. If I get there, that is; the Butcher is knocking on the door and I have a lot of fragile weapons.
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4rch1t3ct wrote:


Further, with the huge pile of randomization, game setup must be carefully considered. This game, as is, takes up a huge amount of table space and ample time arranging or swapping out components. As an example, any hunt will need selection of AI deck, sorting of AI deck, shuffling, selection, reshuffling.

A decent review although your arguments about value and worth are personal and fall on deaf ears. $400 to some people means very little while $40 could break the bank for others. I did want to highlight on your criticism about component wrangling. I find KDM to be very simple to set-up in all phases of the game. Each phase requires very little from the box and I'm surprised to see this complaint. I find KDM to be akin to Sentinels of the Multiverse in terms of set-up and arrangement (although the latter takes up much less space).
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Quote:
However, this game is not worth $400.
Quote:
Lastly, the quality of components is top tier. People have already sung their praises about this, so I don't feel obligated to go into detail.
Hmmm……
You do go on to say that it's hardly worth the 200-250 range, but you mentioned being a preorder? Do you feel you did not get your value out of it? Just sell the mini's if they're not for you.

Quote:
I highly, highly recommend that the KD:M crew release a PDF copy of the rulebook. I see no logical reason why they shouldn't.
So, originally it was tight-lipped. But, Adam alluded to the fact that a PDF of 224 pages becomes clunky and unwieldy to use. With the same stroke, he mentioned a digital version - but the would require time and resources to achieve.
PDF's with gutters and all of that are like raw files sent to the factory.
Digital rulebooks are helpful and intuitive.

Quote:
Likewise, as much as I have enjoyed the tactical aspects of combat in the game, it is not very elegant in terms of resolution. You effectively have to randomize three times to inflict a single wound on a monster (roll to hit, draw location, roll to damage). Fortunately, combat makes up for this in other ways, but at the moment it still feels somewhat clumsy.
Which makes it similar to other brutal co-ops… If you play Ghost Stories, hoping for the dice to make your work easy, you did it wrong (the dice are not friends!).
Honestly, you're in early enough that a lot of the gear accessible to you does not really come across as powerful… Once you get some sweet gear, and your survivors are hitting (in a blind spot) on a 6+ (50%), and you're then wounding on a 3+ (80%), it becomes pretty evident that you're setup for success.

I'll admit there are some clunky parts, but I think that is mostly tear-down after a long session. To save time from setup/teardown, I just pile all of the gear up "by survivor build" and slot it, making sure it's all recorded on the Settlement sheet.

After your first few sessions, a natural way to setup becomes apparent.
I can get a game started in under 5 minutes. I can usually teardown in 5 minutes, 10 minutes tops. Solo, is easier to clean up. I track everything relentlessly, whereas in MP, I am more prone to "log it all at cleanup time" which makes cleanup take like 15-25 minutes more.

I agree, the Rulebook could have been done a little differently, both for organization & quality, but I can say after get it spiral bound, my worries for wear/tear have diminished…
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Montgomery Mullen
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My criticisms regarding value are largely based on comparison within the gaming market itself. 'Subjective worth' in terms of finance is good to a point, but the market always sets a standard even in terms of collection. When I was appraising books, I ran into a good number of small items that would be extremely expensive to purchase, but their value was inflated on rarity and collectible ranking rather than any actual technical expertise or quality on the part of the book.

Art project games like this are in a similar arena. What are you paying $400 for? The quality of the work or the work itself? Compared to other items on the market at the moment, in my estimation it is simply not worth $400 as a product in and of itself. I pre-ordered because I wanted to support Adam and his dream, and because I was intrigued by the game (which doesn't happen often).

Re: component wrangling: I admit that unfamiliarity with the game asofar probably contributed here. As noted, this is an initial review; as of this writing, I have just completed Lantern Year 4 in my very first game. I'm glad to see that others have not really experienced this issue.

Re: PDF, yeah, I worked in office management for a long time. A 224 page PDF can be made very manageable indeed, especially with proper indexing and bookmarking. It does take some extra work, especially if you do not have a tech writer on staff, and I am very aware of how much personal elbow grease Poots + Co. have put into this project, so I don't blame them for not getting to it. I'm just saying it seems like a really, really good idea.

Re: Clunky, I mainly speak in terms of mechanics here. Resolution is not very elegant, what with hit locations, hit location demands, rolling to hit AND to wound, and so forth. So the game feels cluttered to me in terms of how it actually functions completely separate from the nature of its physical components. Throw in additional rolls on various cards (harvesting in combat, special effect d10s on a hit, etc.) and it is a Russian nesting doll of randomization. Most of the actual difficulty level of the game in my experience so far is almost entirely on the matter of randomization. It is effectively a game of advanced Russian roulette for each of your survivors.

The game is quite functional and thematic, which I applaud. I happen to prefer tighter, more elegant mechanics that still serve to support the theme. So far, I am enjoying the game well enough (the Butcher fight was tense), and I see no reason why I will not continue playing it.
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4rch1t3ct wrote:
My criticisms regarding value are largely based on comparison within the gaming market itself. 'Subjective worth' in terms of finance is good to a point, but the market always sets a standard even in terms of collection. When I was appraising books, I ran into a good number of small items that would be extremely expensive to purchase, but their value was inflated on rarity and collectible ranking rather than any actual technical expertise or quality on the part of the book.
Fair enough, but I bet people still bought the inflated items because their idea of worth for that specific item was different than the person's next to them. My personal business sells niche nerd memorabilia and the prices are high but I still get lots of sales. It doesn't matter what the market sets as a good value, it's what the individual sets. That's essentially the model that Poots is using for KDM, whether some agree that it is "boutique" or not.
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Montgomery Mullen
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Yes, exactly. Adam's target market is no doubt his already-existing minis collector market. Not being one of them myself (though his minis are amazing), I'm offering the outside market view. I have no doubt that people will buy KD:M at $400; I've seen cheesy Mt. Shasta cult pamphlets go for absurd amounts of money. The fact that KD:M continues to sell is great for Adam and I am pleased he is successful.

But outside of that niche, the price tag is a cliffside.
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One thing I like about the randomness of the wounding process is how you have some control over it with high speed weapons.

Which area do I hit first? Do I risk a reaction, so that I get a critical that helps my next hit or go for the easy root.

Pot gets very hard to choice with the nemesis monsters.
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I'm curious what your criteria would be for a game TO be worth $400 if Kingdom Death isn't it.

Personally I've dropped over $400 on Shadows of Brimstone products, which I don't regret, and Kingdom Death does just about everything SoB does, only better.
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4rch1t3ct wrote:


I highly, highly recommend that the KD:M crew release a PDF copy of the rulebook. I see no logical reason why they shouldn't.

Actually there is. The rulebook is the heart of the game and it isn't just a rulebook. It has all of the spoiler information that is relevant to the game in it. I think that is the primary reason why we don't see a PDF of it. People perusing the PDF will then "learn" the game, making less likely they would purchase it. Just my personal opinion....

-Ski
 
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This "is it worth it?" question always comes up with higher priced board games. I think a more interesting question with regard to KD:M is if it manages to move market expectation. This is the *MOST* expensive board game released (ignoring, OOP pricing, pimped out CE versions of things or systems where you buy lots of different pieces individually) into this hobby niche. Granted lots of people paid like a hundred bucks a few years ago, but a whole lot of people just paid $300 in the last few months and if ebay is any indication, people are gearing up to be paying $400 in a few weeks. That's crazy! Like next gen console crazy!

So how does this game change the expectation and production for board game makers? Will we see more ambitious projects from traditional production companies targeting the $200+ price range? Or is this just an aberrant blip on the radar destined to be forgotten a year?

On a personal note, I'm really happy with the game and would be had I paid retail on the base. I'm psyched up to buy all the expansions I'm missing and I'm expecting to drop $400-500 to pick them up at MSRP. Usually I'm pissy about those kinds of things and refuse to pay $60 when I know if I just wait, CSI or whoever will have it for $45. So far I've logged about 40 hours of game play time and I've only had it for a little over a month. Staple games in my collection (Agricola, Roads and Boats) have taken years to get to those kinds of numbers.
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Teamski wrote:
4rch1t3ct wrote:


I highly, highly recommend that the KD:M crew release a PDF copy of the rulebook. I see no logical reason why they shouldn't.

Actually there is. The rulebook is the heart of the game and it isn't just a rulebook. It has all of the spoiler information that is relevant to the game in it. I think that is the primary reason why we don't see a PDF of it. People perusing the PDF will then "learn" the game, making less likely they would purchase it. Just my personal opinion....

-Ski
I agree with this 100% Also, you don't see many companies releasing pdf files of their rpg materials for free. Instead you get quick start sample game things. I think the rulebook is much close to an rpg core tome given the amount of story content in it.

That said, I think offering a .pdf of the rulebook for sale for 10 or 20 bucks would be a dynamite idea. I'd gladly throw down a couple bucks on such a project.
 
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Montgomery Mullen
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Lots of good comments here.

Re: Combat. Yes, absolutely agree. This is probably the best use of the hit location mechanic I've seen in a long time. Rumbling with the Butcher really emphasized that for me. When the game shines, it really does shine.

Re: Price point. The comment about what this may do to the general market is a good one. One of the observations I had working at Gencon this past year is that this is the year where producers really realized that the gaming community has money. Cthulhu Wars is another good example of the high price point, high quality 'deluxe' product. But it seems like most of the market is more interested in steady rather than sudden profit; a very great deal coming out with the major publishers looked to be card related (low cost overhead) and/or modular (i.e. supplements and add-on heavy product).

What would I buy for $400? The base Kingdom Death game and all of the 'alt' supplements (Dragon King, Sunstalker, Lantern Festival). Chances are good that my grand KD:M total is going to hit $400 with supplements anyway, because I do enjoy the game enough to continue supporting it (though the Sunstalker expansion so far honestly doesn't do it for me, at least from what I've seen).

Re: PDF. Here's the thing. I respect the idea of preserving the feel of a game and/or supporting the artistic intent. But first off, you can't actually learn the game just by reading that book. Over half the info you need to really understand the game is on cards. The game design and complexity is such that you might get a fundamental feel for the lethal nature of the game and how the basic system works just from the rulebook, but you are not going to grasp that until you've had the white lion down to a single AI card and he just won't die. In this day and age, you can't prevent PDFs from being made. If you don't do it, somebody else will, and people will read them. Releasing the rulebook for a small fee (or a download with purchase) is perfectly acceptable; the people who support you will buy it, the people who weren't going to buy the game in the first place won't. Maybe? Maybe reading it will put people off the game, but if I had access to the rulebook before my purchase, I would have been encouraged.

So, attach a proviso on spoilers or whatever to let people know that perusing the book might put a damper on the 'effect' of the game, but if you're not going to produce a rulebook that can hold up to a lot of play, I'd vote for giving your customers some options. And again, for $400? Saddle stitch it.

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I have been a figures wargamer in the past and have spent large amounts on both metal and plastic figures.
In particular, whilst I find GW overpriced, I have a very large LoTR collection.
In comparison to GW, there is easily £150 ($225) of plastic sprues in the KDM box (ignoring any prices on the KDM website)
After postage the non-miniatures part of the game is therefore probably £80 ($120) which is pricey, but the book and cards are great, etc.
I'm happy to pay a higher price on the basis that the game is doing something new/exciting.
Board gaming is much cheaper than figures gaming, even when miniatures are involved !

Did I need the plastic......no
Could I have managed with just just 7 monster figures and 4 generic survivors.....yes

However, the option was to get the game in its current form or miss it.
Assuming the game, for us, lives up to its promise I will only have an issue with the price if there is suddenly a cheaper option for "just the game".
I would not begrudge others the chance to buy it for less but just slightly annoyed that I didn't get that chance.


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It occurs to me that the prologue could easily be released by itself and it would serve as both a survey on the game and an entry into the world building. Plus it would be like a 10 page pdf without need for references.

On value...I wonder how much people actually care about luxury money and risk in this hobby. There's lots of complaining online, but at the same time thousands are throwing money at these high end projects. I'd wager most of them aren't part of this community. I buy a lot of board games, but I can't just wave around $500 or $1000 willy nilly on them. I didn't get into Chthulu wars partially because of KD:M. Just the other day I was doing the math on buying KD:M expansions verses backing CW pt. 2. I have yet to feel truly burned on a KS project. At worst, I've not liked a game and resold it for 80-90% of what I paid. But then I wasn't in on Up Front or one of the other disasters, so my outlook might trend rosy.

But if a publisher only needs 2000 people to throw $500 at their project, what does it matter if 20,000 on bgg cry foul? Especially for projects like KD:M which straddle multiple niche markets.
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Montgomery Mullen
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Ehlers, in my experience and estimation, you probably aren't going to see a lot of this high rolling 'boutique' stuff from anybody but the independent publishers or the super entrenched monoliths of the hobby (GW, for example), at least not for a while. Most of the hobby seems to be getting more and more fiscally conservative and very marketing-based.

The independent groups are more willing to take a risk with a high-cost product and the entrenched steely-eyed industry veterans (again, like GW) know that it doesn't really matter what they release, people are going to buy it anyway. There is definitely a market for luxury products (Adam Poots minis are a prime example of this), but they tend to be very singular sorts of niches (collectibles and so on).

Also, the prologue as a game primer? Great idea.
 
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Mark Carlson
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4rch1t3ct wrote:
However, this game is not worth $400.

To cover how much I've gone through so far, my settlement (House of Pain) has been through three Lantern Years.
I stopped reading here.
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tehnoodnub wrote:
4rch1t3ct wrote:
However, this game is not worth $400.

To cover how much I've gone through so far, my settlement (House of Pain) has been through three Lantern Years.
I stopped reading here.
Don't be a jerk, he was honest about the level of information he was basing his opinion on.
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Christopher Handley
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On the subject of worth, it think unless you are a wargaming hobbyist, then the price is not going to make that much sense. As a long time wargamer, and having seen many different GW boxed games in my time (and sold them when working in a GW store), while the price point is high, the amount, and quality, and replay value in the game is high. I am on lantern year 7, and for me the game has kicked into high gear as weapon and armour combos are really coming into play, and my experience with each monster is leading some really exciting game play.

If we think of it this way. A console plus games is, that offers similar amount of hours of game play, social fun, and replay, is going to be much much more expensive than a box of Kingdom Death.

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KD:M really is a game at the intersection of mini hobbyists, board gamers and horror fans.

You're correct in saying that does restrict his market... but I believe that's part of the reason for the higher price tag as well - to ensure that sufficient profit is made from the limited market for such a product.

For those that are at the intersection, it's a holy grail game.

If you discount the value of the miniatures (even if not the quality), then you're going to find it hard pressed to justify $400.

On the other hand, if you're familiar with the prices mini gamers pay for good quality minis for their hobby, then it's a very fair price, especially for a game of such high quality as KD:M (certainly far better than Warhammer games, even though they're very different beasts).

It's a fair review with the point of view appropriately contextualized.

If you fully engage in the hobbying side of this game though, it's immensely satisfying. I've been magnetizing my minis for WYSIWYG approach, and seeing my characters gear up over the course of a campaign has been immensely satisfying (even if it adds significantly to setup time - it's fun dammit).
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NerdyRaptor wrote:

Personally I've dropped over $400 on Shadows of Brimstone products, which I don't regret, and Kingdom Death does just about everything SoB does, only better.
Except you've only played less than half that worth in SoB's contents (the base core sets). DOn't you think you'll be able to fairly compare both when you'll have played your full 400$ of SoB?
 
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Nice review, however I feel you fell slightly into the trap of undervaluing the game cost because certain components did not rank high with you. Even if you are not a mini enthusiast, it doesn't mean the mini's should be worth less $. Regardless the minis are high quality and very reasonably priced for the amount and production quality. Price wise the game really is going to cost $400 based on the amount of components and type of components.
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Lanfearious wrote:
Nice review, however I feel you fell slightly into the trap of undervaluing the game cost because certain components did not rank high with you. Even if you are not a mini enthusiast, it doesn't mean the mini's should be worth less $. Regardless the minis are high quality and very reasonably priced for the amount and production quality. Price wise the game really is going to cost $400 based on the amount of components and type of components.
But that's really the crux. People compare the miniatures to GW, but if you aren't interested in the pile of plastic to begin with, then it doesn't matter. And there is no good comparison. Alot of the miniatures are redundent armor sets. Yes, it can be cool to paper doll your survivors to meet your tastes but it's value is meaningless if you are not into it.

As compared to a miniature war game, the miniatures could be worth it. But compared to a dungeon crawl they are astronomical.
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4rch1t3ct wrote:
However, this game is not worth $400.

To cover how much I've gone through so far, my settlement (House of Pain) has been through three Lantern Years.

I myself found this snap judgement disappointing. It really isn’t explained or backed up by anything.

If someone charged me $400 to play three games of Kingdom Death I don’t think I would say it is value for money. Having now played over 100 hours of it I definitely agree that $4 per hour to play Kingdom Death – and still never having completed it and always seeing new content – is definitely value for money.

What disappoints me about the modern boardgame industry is how disposable it is. Many boardgames and cardgames are like a meal or a movie, they are fun at the time of purchase but not designed to be something that sticks around. I would put KD:M in the same category as a CCG, RPG or miniatures game (like 40K) as you need to meet regularly with the same people and invest time in completing the campaign. Divide your hours played by the price you paid to get better figure.

Personally I play without using the survivor miniatures at all and this has not lessened my enthusiasm for the game or caused me to lament the price I paid. But if you could by ten $40 games and get more use and fun out of them then that is a serious consideration.

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Nathaniel GOUSSET
France
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4rch1t3ct wrote:



If this were an RPG, it would be immediately branded as 'Gygaxian'. Want to go outside? Roll on a chart. Want to eat the food? Roll on the chart. Want to pick up a plant? Roll on a chart. And everywhere, there is the looming threat of completely arbitrary death.
I think the term you are refering to is "Rolemasteric", Gygax games doesnt heavily rely on table and insta-death. While Rolemaster games have a LOT OF them and you can easily die crossing a street by failing your move in armor roll.

4rch1t3ct wrote:

Likewise, as much as I have enjoyed the tactical aspects of combat in the game, it is not very elegant in terms of resolution. You effectively have to randomize three times to inflict a single wound on a monster (roll to hit, draw location, roll to damage). Fortunately, combat makes up for this in other ways, but at the moment it still feels somewhat clumsy.
Rolling a lot of dice is a way to limit excessive result and I understand your pain... But get into the habit of using colored dices and rolling them together in order to have you 3 results with only one roll. You can even do that with several attack at once by choosing to "read" the dice from top to bottom and left to right.
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Corporal Joe Bauers
United States
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IKerensky wrote:
4rch1t3ct wrote:
If this were an RPG, it would be immediately branded as 'Gygaxian'. Want to go outside? Roll on a chart. Want to eat the food? Roll on the chart. Want to pick up a plant? Roll on a chart. And everywhere, there is the looming threat of completely arbitrary death.
I think the term you are refering to is "Rolemasteric", Gygax games doesnt heavily rely on table and insta-death. While Rolemaster games have a LOT OF them and you can easily die crossing a street by failing your move in armor roll.
This is true! Well, the part about Gygax that is, "Rolemasrerix" definitely is not a word most anyone would try to use.

However that doesn't change the common meaning of "gygaxian" even if it's a misnomer.

You can build a thousand bridges, but if you make one brutal module full of arbitrary death then you're a monster forever. (Tomb of Horrors was of course the first settlement of KD:M)

So it is Gygaxian.
 
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