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Subject: ACA insurance takes a rough turn. rss

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Mac Mcleod
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Okay, I've been posting the good stuff so I should post the bad stuff.

I haven't looked for alternative coverage on healthcare.gov but my silver insurance is going up by $100 a month next year. And I'll probably get stung for about $500 in extra deductibles. And they are dropping coverage for a couple dozen drugs which I don't take. And requiring generics for a couple dozen more that I don't take.

Better than the alternative (being refused coverage due to my health history) and I am under budget so I can afford it. But for people with lower incomes that's going to be stiff.

The republican's plan is no insurance for me, misery and possibly early death so there's nothing on that side.

Anyway... full disclosure!

Will look into other silver plans and at what bronze plans are like.
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Frank F
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Koldfoot wrote:
They plan for you to have no insurance?

Hyperbole much?


The unaffordable care act.
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Mac Mcleod
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Koldfoot wrote:
They plan for you to have no insurance?

Hyperbole much?


Nope. None at all sadly.
 
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maxo-texas wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
They plan for you to have no insurance?

Hyperbole much?


Nope. None at all sadly.


You should pray more.
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Boaty McBoatface
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maxo-texas wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
They plan for you to have no insurance?

Hyperbole much?


Nope. None at all sadly.
To b e fair he is right, it's not that they do not plan to not give you insurance, it's that they are not going to make any effort to ensure you get some kind of healthcare coverage.
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maxo-texas wrote:

Will look into other silver plans and at what bronze plans are like.


Have you been invited to sit before an Alternative Mortality Panel yet?
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Shawn Fox
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maxo-texas wrote:
Okay, I've been posting the good stuff so I should post the bad stuff.

I haven't looked for alternative coverage on healthcare.gov but my silver insurance is going up by $100 a month next year. And I'll probably get stung for about $500 in extra deductibles. And they are dropping coverage for a couple dozen drugs which I don't take. And requiring generics for a couple dozen more that I don't take.

Better than the alternative (being refused coverage due to my health history) and I am under budget so I can afford it. But for people with lower incomes that's going to be stiff.

The republican's plan is no insurance for me, misery and possibly early death so there's nothing on that side.

Anyway... full disclosure!

Will look into other silver plans and at what bronze plans are like.


My costs might be going up a lot as well, although this is all kind of a silly game to some point. I take Enbrel which is a very expensive drug. last year there were multiple plans which would give me Enbrel for a flat $100 to $200 per month. This year all of the plans switched to a 30% copay (with Enbrel that amounts to $1500/month or more), so basically that would blow through the $6850 max out of pocket limit on ACA plans really fast, making my total cost for the year be around $6850 + [monthly payment] * 12.

So the effect of that is to increase my costs by 40-50% or more vs last year. However, the funny thing is, many pharmaceutical companies play a game with the insurance companies. They raise the price of Enbrel and then offer insurance to people who use Enbrel for $5/month that covers your 'out of pocket' expenses for buying Enbrel. So last year that $150/month was completely covered by my Enbrel Support Co-Pay card. I suspect the card will also cover most/all of the increased costs this year as well, but I've not called them to verify how much of my costs they'll cover next year yet.

Anyway, the point I'm getting to is that I think my actual out of pocket costs didn't change and I'll still be paying a bit under $400/month for my insurance (silver level plan) just as I was last year. The drug companies (Amgen in this case) raised their prices, but it isn't a real price increase, it is just a game they play with the insurance companies to keep the costs low for people who use Enbrel (Humira, an alternative to Enbrel, does exactly the same thing).
 
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Shawn Fox
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Just a quick follow up to my prior post, Enbrel support covers up to $8000/year for co-pay assistance, so it looks like my costs remain at under $400/month for my health insurance plan.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The republican's plan is no insurance for me, misery and possibly early death so there's nothing on that side.


So bascially, you haven't even looked at any of the Republicans' plans.

Got it.



They're pretty much the usual. Most of them are boosting HSAs, which are a terrible policy solution to healthcare costs both on the macroeconomic and microeconomic level. Most of them are arguing for cross-state purchase of health insurance, which would just create a race-to-the-bottom situation with a few states who regulate insurance companies most loosely receiving the lion's share of the insurance industry - akin to what's happened with the credit industry. Most of them are for medical tort reform, which isn't a major driver of healthcare costs and hasn't been for years. And most of them are for serious Medicaid cuts and replacing them with tax credits to help people buy insurance instead, which would savage poor people.

As a general rule if you pick a selection of multiple of the above options, you'll get one of the GOP candidates' healthcare plans.
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Shawn Fox
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mightygodking wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The republican's plan is no insurance for me, misery and possibly early death so there's nothing on that side.


So bascially, you haven't even looked at any of the Republicans' plans.

Got it.



They're pretty much the usual. Most of them are boosting HSAs, which are a terrible policy solution to healthcare costs both on the macroeconomic and microeconomic level. Most of them are arguing for cross-state purchase of health insurance, which would just create a race-to-the-bottom situation with a few states who regulate insurance companies most loosely receiving the lion's share of the insurance industry - akin to what's happened with the credit industry. Most of them are for medical tort reform, which isn't a major driver of healthcare costs and hasn't been for years. And most of them are for serious Medicaid cuts and replacing them with tax credits to help people buy insurance instead, which would savage poor people.

As a general rule if you pick a selection of multiple of the above options, you'll get one of the GOP candidates' healthcare plans.


HSAs work great as long as you never have any serious need for medical care. Which is of course true for the majority of the population, at least until they get old enough to get into the Medicare program. In general this is the problem with Republican plans, they try to deliver a solution that works great for 80% of the population while ignoring that people that actually need the help. It is a highly cynical, but unfortunately pretty successful strategy.
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sfox wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The republican's plan is no insurance for me, misery and possibly early death so there's nothing on that side.


So bascially, you haven't even looked at any of the Republicans' plans.

Got it.



They're pretty much the usual. Most of them are boosting HSAs, which are a terrible policy solution to healthcare costs both on the macroeconomic and microeconomic level. Most of them are arguing for cross-state purchase of health insurance, which would just create a race-to-the-bottom situation with a few states who regulate insurance companies most loosely receiving the lion's share of the insurance industry - akin to what's happened with the credit industry. Most of them are for medical tort reform, which isn't a major driver of healthcare costs and hasn't been for years. And most of them are for serious Medicaid cuts and replacing them with tax credits to help people buy insurance instead, which would savage poor people.

As a general rule if you pick a selection of multiple of the above options, you'll get one of the GOP candidates' healthcare plans.


HSAs work great as long as you never have any serious need for medical care. Which is of course true for the majority of the population, at least until they get old enough to get into the Medicare program. In general this is the problem with Republican plans, they try to deliver a solution that works great for 80% of the population while ignoring that people that actually need the help. It is a highly cynical, but unfortunately pretty successful strategy.


It is basically the opposite of insurance, which the whole point is to cover you *when you need it*
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MGK
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sfox wrote:
HSAs work great as long as you never have any serious need for medical care.


It's questionable that they even work on that level. There are heaps of studies at this point which all show that the central theory of HSAs - that people will cost-shop for the best medical savings - does not work at all. The idea is that people will shop for the best deal on routine medical care and that will drive overall routine care costs down as a result of competition. What actually happens in practice is that the majority of HSA participants avoid getting preventative care because they're more sensitive to immediate costs - and lack of preventative care means more serious health issues are more likely to arise, which in turn means that either an individual gets boned when he can't afford the high-deductible portion of his insurance or that insurance companies find themselves on the hook for extremely expensive care that could have been avoided in the first place.
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Steven Woodcock
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Koldfoot wrote:
They plan for you to have no insurance?

Hyperbole much?


Yeah, that was exactly what I was thinking too.

We can have straightforward conversations without the histrionics, surely?



Ferret
 
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Ferretman wrote:

We can have straightforward conversations without the histrionics, surely?


I am pretty sure you have the wrong forum.
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Mac Mcleod
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Drew1365 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The republican's plan is no insurance for me, misery and possibly early death so there's nothing on that side.


So bascially, you haven't even looked at any of the Republicans' plans.

Got it.



No i did that 6 years ago.

Their plan is be rich or have a job that offers benefits or be in treated except in the emergency room and by the way theyll go ahead and gut age discimination protection while they are at it and encourage offshoring and h1bs.

Ill be fine with the increase personally. Im almost a full year under budget now despite trips and an unexpectedly expensive ac repair.

Its not doom and gloom but its not all roses either. I knew when i tried to be fair and honest id get jacked by the republicans here but its the truth rates are going up more than predicted even 5 months ago.


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Greg Michealson
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Drew1365 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The republican's plan is no insurance for me, misery and possibly early death so there's nothing on that side.


So bascially, you haven't even looked at any of the Republicans' plans.

Got it.



Republicans have some good health insurance plans? I'm all ears. Links please... and no crickets please!

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mrspank wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The republican's plan is no insurance for me, misery and possibly early death so there's nothing on that side.


So bascially, you haven't even looked at any of the Republicans' plans.

Got it.



Republicans have some good health insurance plans? I'm all ears. Links please... and no crickets please!



Mitt Romney had an idea for Massachusetts. I think he's disowned it, though.
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Actuary_Gamer wrote:
Also, nobody is forcing anyone onto an HSA. If it helps 64% of the people, then why is it bad? The other 36% of people can go get a different plan? Your anger at HSAs doesn't make sense to me.


The reason HSAs are bad is they take money out of the system. You seem to believe that good choices prevent extreme costs, but that just isn't true. Yes eating right and exercising does reduce the chance of diabetes and some other diseases, but it doesn't eliminate them completely. There are also plenty of other diseases which can strike at any time.

I also don't have any statistics to back me up, but I know for a fact that I have family members who don't go to the doctor or dentist because they can't afford it. Purely anecdotal, but I'd have ot see stats that prove that the poor don't decide to avoid medical care due to cost before I'd believe that the poor use money in their HSA to prevent future problems. One of the main reasons most people are poor is due to making poor short term vs. long term tradeoffs (one of the other big ones is health problems for themselves or their parents). Why would anyone believe their behavior is suddenly going to change when they have a HSA?
 
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Actuary_Gamer wrote:
Turning this around, one can say an increase in weight of about 7.5% (taking the average) increases the chance of diabetes to 200% of what it was (again taking the average).

A normal 6 foot tall male should weight between 136.4 – 183.6 lb. We'll take an average of 160 (i'm pulling these from a site on google).

A 6 foot tall male is classified as obese at 258.1 – 294.2 lbs. We'll take an average of 275.

This means that an obese person at 275 is (200%)^x times more likely to get diabetes where (1.075)^x = 275/160 or x = x * log(1.075) = log (275/160) so x = 7.488 and therefore (200%)^x = 17900%.


For an actuary, you are incredibly bad at math.
 
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TheChin! wrote:
Ferretman wrote:

We can have straightforward conversations without the histrionics, surely?


I am pretty sure you have the wrong forum.



Heh.....yeah, you may be right there.


Ferret
 
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mrspank wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
The republican's plan is no insurance for me, misery and possibly early death so there's nothing on that side.


So bascially, you haven't even looked at any of the Republicans' plans.

Got it.



Republicans have some good health insurance plans? I'm all ears. Links please... and no crickets please!



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Grady Smithey
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sfox wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
[q="maxo-texas"]The republican's plan is no insurance for me, misery and possibly early death so there's nothing on that side.


So bascially, you haven't even looked at any of the Republicans' plans.


They're pretty much the usual. Most of them are boosting HSAs, which are a terrible policy solution to healthcare costs both on the macroeconomic and microeconomic level.


The other problem with HSAs is having some random faceless administrator declare that the medical care you used it to pay for was not covered under the plan when it actually was, and revoking your ability to use the remaining funds in your account. I had that happen to me two years in a row, and have refused to participate in another one of those ponzi schemes since.
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"It's gonna cost $1,064 to cover my family (me + wife + kid) for one month under @HealthCareGov ...seems kind of outrageous." -- Digital Production Manager for The Daily Show

The Daily Show?

And what's the difference between comedy and tragedy?

Tragedy plus time equals comedy -- assuming you and your bank account survive...

Obamacare will hilarious one day but until then as Sergeant Esterhaus said, "Let's be careful out there."
 
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snakebitcat wrote:
sfox wrote:
mightygodking wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
[q="maxo-texas"]The republican's plan is no insurance for me, misery and possibly early death so there's nothing on that side.


So bascially, you haven't even looked at any of the Republicans' plans.


They're pretty much the usual. Most of them are boosting HSAs, which are a terrible policy solution to healthcare costs both on the macroeconomic and microeconomic level.


The other problem with HSAs is having some random faceless administrator declare that the medical care you used it to pay for was not covered under the plan when it actually was, and revoking your ability to use the remaining funds in your account. I had that happen to me two years in a row, and have refused to participate in another one of those ponzi schemes since.


But isn't that the case with any insurance? There are things that are covered and things that aren't? If HSA's become managed by the government instead of a profit-driven board and they enforce the same kind of broader coverage that has been compelled by the ACA, wouldn't that pretty much eliminate that portion of the complaint?
 
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sikeospi wrote:
"It's gonna cost $1,064 to cover my family (me + wife + kid) for one month under @HealthCareGov ...seems kind of outrageous." -- Digital Production Manager for The Daily Show


I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here, were you just trying to show that both you and some random guy working for the Daily Show had no idea how much health insurance actually costs? Nothing to do with ACA, sorry to break your conservatard bubble on this. The average employer sponsored health plan for a family in 2014 was $13,375 (give or take depending on where you live) so whoever this mysterious person you are quoting is seems to be getting a reasonable deal.
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