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I was just lying here reading the rule book again and hit a bit of confusion.

It states that when you target your opponents phoenixborn they may assign units of their own to block the attack at a 1:1 ratio basically. So if I attack with 5 units, they could potentially guard the attack on the phoenixborn with 5 units of their own. OKAY, that's fine.

Now my confusion.

When attacking another players UNIT, you may get your phoenixborn in the way to take the hit OR guard with a unit that has "unit guard" ability. Now that isn't a 1 blocker per 1 attacker is it? If you guard with your phoenixborn ALL attackers then attack the phoenixborn right? And if they guard with say a gilder, then ALL attackers attack that guilder right?

I thought it worked the same was as attacking a phoenixborn where you can block 1 to 1.

IT seems like if your attacking a unit and something guards the attack, they guard against the WHOLE attack?

SO if the opponent had 5 iron rhinos, and declared them all as attackers against my silver snake. I could use a gilder to step in for the ENTIRE ATTACK of 5 iron rhinos?

I have been playing it that, my gilder would block ONE rhino, leaving 4 still attacking the silver snake. I could then use my phoenixborn to block another rhino, leaving 3 attacking the silver snake. But that is wrong isn't it?

Am I missing something?
 
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Samuel Favre
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evilnox wrote:
IT seems like if your attacking a unit and something guards the attack, they guard against the WHOLE attack?
Guarding means that the Guilder will replace the target. So the answer is yes.

Keep in mind that Blocking and Guarding are different. In particular, you cannot block when the target is one of your unit.
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Andrew Keddie
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Attacking one unit with five Iron Rhinos strongly disincentives a Phoenixborn to get in the way, but it also exhausts all five Rhinos, so it's not something a lot of players are going to do. Typically you aren't going to be attacking a single unit with overwhelming force like that, and you'll attack with just as much force as needed to destroy the target.

It does though give some interesting tactical considerations of how much to commit to an attack if you think your opponent might block with their PB, but you REALLY want a unit dead.
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Marc Bennett
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
Attacking one unit with five Iron Rhinos strongly disincentives a Phoenixborn to get in the way, but it also exhausts all five Rhinos, so it's not something a lot of players are going to do. Typically you aren't going to be attacking a single unit with overwhelming force like that, and you'll attack with just as much force as needed to destroy the target.

It does though give some interesting tactical considerations of how much to commit to an attack if you think your opponent might block with their PB, but you REALLY want a unit dead.
exactly, by attacking with extra force you cause your opponent to use more of thier phoenixborns life to guard the attack. if they can guard with a guilder though... it really ends up being a waste.

EDIT to the OP, your new understanding is correct. when attacking a phoenixborn, you may "block" creatures at a 1:1 ratio. when the target of the attack is a unit, the phoenixborn (or unit with unit guard) may "guard" against the entire attack, or none of it.
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Klaxas wrote:
CommissarFeesh wrote:
Attacking one unit with five Iron Rhinos strongly disincentives a Phoenixborn to get in the way, but it also exhausts all five Rhinos, so it's not something a lot of players are going to do. Typically you aren't going to be attacking a single unit with overwhelming force like that, and you'll attack with just as much force as needed to destroy the target.

It does though give some interesting tactical considerations of how much to commit to an attack if you think your opponent might block with their PB, but you REALLY want a unit dead.
exactly, by attacking with extra force you cause your opponent to use more of thier phoenixborns life to guard the attack. if they can guard with a guilder though... it really ends up being a waste.

EDIT to the OP, your new understanding is correct. when attacking a phoenixborn, you may "block" creatures at a 1:1 ratio. when the target of the attack is a unit, the phoenixborn (or unit with unit guard) may "guard" against the entire attack, or none of it.
Ironically, misunderstanding how unit guard actually worked caused this exact scenario to happen with me last night. I was getting spanked down by Maeoni as Coal and waited way too long to go after a 4 attack snake. When I realized I was one turn from death I sent 3 rhinos, a hammer knight, and an iron worker at the snake in desperation and only then learned by perusing the rulebook that all of it could be stopped by a single guilder.

Even if i'd gone about it correctly and attacked the snake one unit at a time, my buddy had 2 guilders and 17 life left on his Phoenixborn and there was no way I was either getting through to the snake or killing his Phoenixborn... cus i waited too long.
 
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evilnox wrote:
I was just lying here reading the rule book again and hit a bit of confusion.

It states that when you target your opponents phoenixborn they may assign units of their own to block the attack at a 1:1 ratio basically. So if I attack with 5 units, they could potentially guard the attack on the phoenixborn with 5 units of their own. OKAY, that's fine.

Now my confusion.

When attacking another players UNIT, you may get your phoenixborn in the way to take the hit OR guard with a unit that has "unit guard" ability. Now that isn't a 1 blocker per 1 attacker is it? If you guard with your phoenixborn ALL attackers then attack the phoenixborn right? And if they guard with say a gilder, then ALL attackers attack that guilder right?

I thought it worked the same was as attacking a phoenixborn where you can block 1 to 1.

IT seems like if your attacking a unit and something guards the attack, they guard against the WHOLE attack?

SO if the opponent had 5 iron rhinos, and declared them all as attackers against my silver snake. I could use a gilder to step in for the ENTIRE ATTACK of 5 iron rhinos?

I have been playing it that, my gilder would block ONE rhino, leaving 4 still attacking the silver snake. I could then use my phoenixborn to block another rhino, leaving 3 attacking the silver snake. But that is wrong isn't it?

Am I missing something?
Attacking a unit and attacking a phoenixborn are indeed not the same thing, and that's why they're written separately in the rule book as different main actions.

When attacking a unit, all your attackers attack that unit at once, for a group attack. You can guard the defending unit with a unit that has Unit Guard or your Phoenixborn. The guarding unit receives all attacks, instead of the targeted unit. Note that this damage is done in one giant glob (for effects like the Doll's "damage reverb", or if guarding with your Phoenixborn and using Reflect.

When attacking the phoenixborn, your attackers are separate attacks. You can assign 1 unit per attacker to block. Unblocked attackers damage the Phoenixborn. In this situation, the attacks are resolved one after another (think it's in the attacker's choice, since he's the active player at the attack point). This changes how you prevent or redirect the damage; if 3 units attack your phoenixborn and you can't block any, then playing a Redirect will redirect 1 of those attacks, the other 2 get through.
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Marc-André Gaumond
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Bah, just spend your main action to attack with only 1 unit, targetting the snake, if you have more units than him. He'll either get the damage on the snake (which is what you wanted), guard with Maeoni (which is even better) or guard with Gilder (which is the least favorite scenario, but still good). Always keep 1 unit unexhausted to block his snake attack.

If he attacks for his main, counter with 1 of your units. If he doesn't, continue hitting with just 1 unit. He'll either block (killing his units or countering and getting exhausted), or protect with his phoenixborn.

Granted, I don't know exactly what the board looked like at this point, but if your battlefield is bigger than Maeoni (which is should at that point in the game), then single strikes can cause Maeoni to be unable to defend completely.
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Joe Stude
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Hypnotize changes everything though. If the snake is beefy, he's got one or two guilders out with at least one unexhausted Summon Guilder, and you're down life as Coal it's pretty dire, even with a bigger battlefield.
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Jowjow wrote:
Hypnotize changes everything though. If the snake is beefy, he's got one or two guilders out with at least one unexhausted Summon Guilder, and you're down life as Coal it's pretty dire, even with a bigger battlefield.
Even if the snake isn't beefy, Maeoni's stock deck can pump out +3 or +4 on something using a ready spell, her power, and a Charm die power. And 3 power hits on Coal put him on the same clock as 5 power hits on Maeoni considering their respective life totals. And of course Coal can only hit once with a high attack unit, whereas Maeoni has 2 different cards to reuse a buffed up attacker.
 
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Jowjow wrote:
Hypnotize changes everything though. If the snake is beefy, he's got one or two guilders out with at least one unexhausted Summon Guilder, and you're down life as Coal it's pretty dire, even with a bigger battlefield.
LoL, Hypnotize is what killed me in a game the other day. I was the voodoo chick Jessa?

My opponent had a snake with 4 tokens on it and I used fear to get it off the table. He brought out another snake, ended up with 6 tokens on it after a couple more rounds... but I wasn't afraid of it because I always held a fear in my hand. When he cast out hypnotize I went OH CRAP!. Next turn I tried to fear the snake and it got cancelled (had forgotten about that ability as well). So you know where this is going, he gave his snake bypass, buffed it even further and ate my face off.
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Back to my original question. In my example about the 5 attacking RHINO's. That was just for arguments sake that game didn't happen. I was just setting up a "what if" to ask the question.

Thanks for all the replies. I will have to reteach some friends about this, tell them I made a rules mistake, then hear how I'm a cheater. lol

 
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Also when we are on the topic just to be sure. You can't buff your units after your opponent decides who the blockers are right? You have to choose after you declare your attackers and before they declare blockers?

So I can't attack a phoenixborn with 3 guys, my opponent blocks two of them with units and is forced to deal with one getting through. I can't then use a side action to buff that unit, or use abilities that buff like maoni's Strike ability correct?
 
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Joe Stude
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evilnox wrote:
Also when we are on the topic just to be sure. You can't buff your units after your opponent decides who the blockers are right? You have to choose after you declare your attackers and before they declare blockers?

So I can't attack a phoenixborn with 3 guys, my opponent blocks two of them with units and is forced to deal with one getting through. I can't then use a side action to buff that unit, or use abilities that buff like maoni's Strike ability correct?
I can't cite the rulebook directly because I'm at work, but my instinct is no, because you can't do a side action until the main action (the entire attack) has been completed.
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Donny Behne
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evilnox wrote:
Also when we are on the topic just to be sure. You can't buff your units after your opponent decides who the blockers are right? You have to choose after you declare your attackers and before they declare blockers?

So I can't attack a phoenixborn with 3 guys, my opponent blocks two of them with units and is forced to deal with one getting through. I can't then use a side action to buff that unit, or use abilities that buff like maoni's Strike ability correct?
If memory serves, the only cards around right now that buff during an attack say "when an attack is declared", which is before blockers are declared. And no, you can't side action during a main action.

I don't believe there are any buff/debuff reaction cards playable in the window between blockers and damage.
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Alright, well at least I got that stuff right.

Thanks again.
 
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