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Subject: Card #30 Manservant question rss

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Iain Mabbott
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just looking for a clarification on the text on this card...

The text says "Anytime you play a card, you may also discard 1 additional card. After doing so, draw cards until you reach your hand limit"

I read this that to trigger the "draw cards" bit, you MUST discard a card. You may choose not to discard a card but then you don't get to draw up.

My opponent reads the "after doing so" part to refer to the "playing a card" bit, i.e. you don't have to discard a card to trigger the drawing of extra cards.

Any ideas?

Hope that makes sense!

Cheers, Iain
 
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Hi,

you are allowed to draw up to your limit after you played a card. If you want you can discard one of your cards in addition to your played card. You can get rid of something you don't want on your hand. In that case you get to draw one card more.

I am sorry to say that your opponent was right. ;-)
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Iain Mabbott
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Thanks for the quick reply Andreas, glad it's cleared up!
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Paulo Renato
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bayerbube wrote:
Hi,

you are allowed to draw up to your limit after you played a card. If you want you can discard one of your cards in addition to your played card. You can get rid of something you don't want on your hand. In that case you get to draw one card more.

I am sorry to say that your opponent was right. ;-)
I have to say that the wording on the card is pretty misleading... when I was reading the OP, to me, the structuring of the Sentences would imply that if you wanted to draw cards you would have to have discarded 1 card before, if you don'r discard a car you won't draw up to your hand limit...

That would be how I would read it :s

I now can see it can be read the other way but I have to say it's not the most intuitive way to put it... it would be more clear (at least to me) if the wording was something like this:

"Anytime you play a card you can draw cards until you reach your hand limit. Prior to drawing the cards you may discard 1 card."
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You cannot make it perfect for every one.

Your example is really bad to me. It has the wrong structure. The good structure is: First what you do first and then what you do next. You example is: Do this. But before you do this, you can do another thing. That's not how you write rules. Sry.

The actual card text is very good since there is no word saying that you must discard a card in order to draw back to your hand limit. It says, that you "may" discard one card and then draw cards. Pretty good, I think. And with the right structure of the things you actually do while using the effect.

I am not seeing you point, Paulo, sry.
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Paulo Renato
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I understand what you say about the order of things being "messed" up in my example, I understand it wouldn't be ideal but at least it would be clear

Regarding the current way the card is worded... like I said, to me, when I read it I follow mentally:
1- Play a card
2- Additionally May discard a card then Draw up to your hand limit.

I think that what creates the confusion for me is the word "additionally"...
To me it implies that there are 2 different actions in that are dependent on each other... it makes me think that "I play a card... additionally I can discard a card and then Draw up to my limit"... so if I don't discard I can't activate the next part...

But like I said, that's just how I read it, and I know it's pretty hard to make everything clear to everyone, not a criticism Just trying to help...

but it would probably be good to include this clarification on the FAQ because at least 2 persons read it that way (me and the OP), so it's bound that more people exist that read it the same way
 
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Joel Oakley
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bayerbube wrote:
Hi,

you are allowed to draw up to your limit after you played a card. If you want you can discard one of your cards in addition to your played card. You can get rid of something you don't want on your hand. In that case you get to draw one card more.

I am sorry to say that your opponent was right. ;-)
For further clarity, is this the ruling regardless of when the card is played (not only in the farm phase when everyone can draw back up to their hand limit)?

For example, if I use the 2 in the revenue phase to play a card, and I have the Manservant, I can (1) discard another card if I wish (2) draw up to my hand limit regardless of whether I did (1) -- correct?
 
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Steve Cohn
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Joakley815 wrote:
For example, if I use the 2 in the revenue phase to play a card, and I have the Manservant, I can (1) discard another card if I wish (2) draw up to my hand limit regardless of whether I did (1) -- correct?
That would appear to be the case. #30, Manservant, is not denoted as having a Helper Timing color (p2 of the Glossary), and according to the Glossary:

La Granja Glossary wrote:
If no color is present, the helper effect may be used at any time during the player's turn.
Accordingly, the Manservant card clearly says "Anytime" and does not specify any of the color-coded phases of Farm (blue), Revenue (green), Transportation (gray) or Scoring (red).

It would appear this can be done "anytime" you play a card!

~Steve


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Muse23PT wrote:
I understand what you say about the order of things being "messed" up in my example, I understand it wouldn't be ideal but at least it would be clear
Well, it is clear already. So... ;-)

Muse23PT wrote:

Regarding the current way the card is worded... like I said, to me, when I read it I follow mentally:
1- Play a card
2- Additionally May discard a card then Draw up to your hand limit.
I follow you. Still I do not understand why you understand it this way?

Let's have a look at the sentence:

"Anytime you play a card, you may also discard 1 additional card."

So, what is in this sentence is the following: You play a card. And then you are free to choose if you want to discard one other card in addition to that played card. This is it. That is what is in the sentence.

Now:

"After doing so, draw cards until you reach your hand limit."

So. After you played a card and maybe discarded another card, you draw cards up to your hand size.

You see: The "playing a card" triggers two effects. First you are allowed to discard one additional card from your hand. And after that you draw cards. Since the discarding a card is no must (because of the word "may") you may also draw cards after you just played a card.

I cannot see your interpretation in the wording.

You see: I totally understand how you can misinterprete such things. Happens to me all the time when I play games. We played Goa wrong for month. Before somebody told us we are playing an important thing wrong. We just didn't get it right. Or Le Havre. We played that wrong serveral times, too... Happens all the time.

In this case the card is completely okay to me.

Muse23PT wrote:

but it would probably be good to include this clarification on the FAQ
I will. Right now I am working on a rules clarification document for all the cards. I already included this.
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