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Dead of Winter: A Crossroads Game» Forums » General

Subject: Outsider cards rss

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Old Thrashbarg

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Only having played this game once so far this could be a stupid question:

Why would you want to play an 'Outsider' event card if you're not a Betrayer? Are there any general game benefits or mechanisms that encourage doing so, as opposed to just objective cards telling you that you have to?

Thanks.
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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More survivors means more dice and more actions available to you.
And you might even get the survivor with just the right special ability.

It's not generally a good idea to play every Outsider Event you draw immediately, but there's certainly an occasional benefit to having someone else on your team.
 
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David Williams
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Well for the 1 Outsider cards it's a no-brainer. Actual survivors make a net positive contribution to the colony if they don't come with helpless survivors. I'm sure there is at least one of these - someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

If they come with 1 helpless survivor, then it becomes more of a selfish move, at least if we assume the player has 2 survivors already. They might still feel the need to play it because it gives them more actions, allowing them to more easily complete their personal objective even if it doesn't specifically state they need X survivors. Depending what characters and items you have, it might not be an overall detriment to the colony, but this is certainly a topic for debate, and not an established fact.

If they have lost a survivor and only have 1 left, then they are at risk of losing their last one and having to discard all their cards which is bad for everyone. So in this case the 2 Outsiders card can easily be justified.

The cards with 2+ helpless survivors should rarely be played, and would certainly raise a big red flag. But it might depend on the player's exact situation, their experience, and whether they asked first and had been made fully aware of the consequences. Inexperience can cause bad decisions just as much as being a betrayer.

But really the main reason people seem to play them at the start is that having more survivors is cool and fun and they don't entirely think through the consequences.
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Ken Marley
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Outsider 1 cards are great.

Outsider 2 cards are a little suspicious.

Outsider 3 cards are a big giant I am a traitor signal.

The primary argument for playing any outsider card is if you are down to one survivor. If you lose your last survivor then you discard your hand which is a huge loss to the group. So I am always fine with a player with one survivor playing an outsider 2 or 3 card, and I am always fine with any Outsider 1 card.

edit: ninja ninja

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Greg
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I played on Monday with the Find a Cure common objective. We were looking good as far as getting med cards under the objective card, but it was getting towards the end and I was running out of time for completing my secret objective.

I had 2 survivors already but wanted another one and another die so I could search for what I needed. All I had was an outsider 3 card, so I played it. But, I also played 2 food cards to make sure we wouldn't starve. It wasn't a terrible zombie burden either, as most of our survivors were out at locations scrambling to achieve our own secret objectives.

Worked out that none of the 5 of us were the betrayer and we barely won at the end of round 3 and with 1 or 2 on the moral track.
 
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Old Thrashbarg

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That makes sense, thanks very much. For some reason I thought of the events mainly in terms of the helpless survivors (as opposed to the helpful variety).

It's a pity that the advantage isn't scaled to match the disadvantage, to avoid the notion that some of the events are played mainly by Betrayers.
 
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Greg
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oldthrashbarg wrote:
That makes sense, thanks very much. For some reason I thought of the events mainly in terms of the helpless survivors (as opposed to the helpful variety).

It's a pity that the advantage isn't scaled to match the disadvantage, to avoid the notion that some of the events are played mainly by Betrayers.


But that's part of the game. Part of it is in being convincing that you aren't the betrayer. Sometimes the situation is such that it makes more sense in what you are doing and less suspicious, and other times when you have to weigh the need for you to play it when it will make you look bad.
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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Outsider 1 is technically a wash (+1 extra zombie or 1/2 food, 1/2 zombie = 1 action) but is actually usually a benefit because of special abilities or equipments that can convert one dice into > 1 action, or Food 2/Food 3 cards. Playing those is pretty much always a good move for both the player and colony (as long as player isn't Betrayer).

Outsider 2 would trend towards being slightly detrimental except for extenuating circumstances but are usually better for the individual doing it. A good ability would make it a wash but you don't get a choice of your survivor so it can easily not be. That's usually a slightly bad move colony wise and neutral-to-good individual wise, so it's defensible but slightly selfish. Some exceptions would be adding the first Helpless in a game where the Mother is in play, for instance. Unlocking that ability is so good that everyone will forgive you.

Outsider 3 is bad for everyone except Betrayer.
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M. B. Downey
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There are also non-traitor objectives that deal with the number of outsiders.

At least one survivor has a special ability that only functions when there is a helpless survivor.
 
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