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Roll for the Galaxy: Ambition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Contact specialist rss

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Pierre Beri
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In the case where you remove a red die that is on the world you want to complete, which one is correct?

You have 3 dice on my 6-cost world

A) With contact specialist you could price the world down to 3, so you declare "yay, I can complete the world thanks to Contact specialist". Therefore you burn a red die that's on the world; the world now costs 3 BUT you have only 2 dice left. Haha, that was a feint! The world now costs 3 forever and you can complete it on a future round.

B) You need 4 dice on the world. You declare you complete it, burn a red die and you have 3 left, which completes the now-3-cost world.

B sounds more reasonable but the wording in the rules didn't make it quite clear (suggestion for reprints: "you may remove a red die... if this triggers completion of the workd / enables you to complete the world immediately...").

Thanks.
 
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Milo Gertjejansen
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You could also take the red die out of anywhere else, right?

Hopefully that's right.. I burned a red die out of my cup to finish a world which netted me two more red dice. I burned another one to complete the next world.
 
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Brent Mair
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I don't know about A but B works for sure, as does Milo's suggestion of taking the red die from elsewhere.
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Pierre Beri
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miloshot wrote:
You could also take the red die out of anywhere else, right?

Hopefully that's right.. I burned a red die out of my cup to finish a world which netted me two more red dice. I burned another one to complete the next world.
Yes of course.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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beri2 wrote:
The world now costs 3 forever and you can complete it on a future round.
No. Reread the Settle rules in the base game. There is no concept of "can complete in a future round" in this game. That's something you are inventing.

A is just wrong; as you are using CS illegally, not "*just before* completing a world" (emphasis added). As stated in the fine point on page 4 of the Ambition rules, if that die comes from the world construction stack, then it doesn't count towards the number needed to complete the world. Therefore, you could not do A.

B is legal but an incomplete statement of the rules, in that the die could come from anywhere; it need not be on the world. See the clarification of Die Removal on page 2 of the Ambition rules.

I see no issue in the tile's wording.
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Milo Gertjejansen
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Hm looking at the wording on the tile again..

It says "Just before." I will illustrate with an example:

I have CS in my tableu and a six-cost world in my construction zone.

I have three dice in Settle and one red die in my citizenry.

I see two situations when reading into the wording:

(1) I move the three settlers, remove the red die, and finish the world or..
(2) I move the three settlers and, because I am not completing the world (so it is not "just before"), I cannot remove the red die.

This brings me to another point: if I have six settlers and the red die, can I move the six settlers and "just before" I complete it (since I have >= the number required) I can remove the red die to lower the value temporarily. This would use three settlers from the world and then three left over would roll onto the next world/empty construction zone.

I am confused now. I sort of assumed that CS was able to trigger the "just before" time (i.e. if I have three settlers on the world, and I know if I remove a red die I can finish the world, then I can remove the red die).

Hopefully that makes sense.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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miloshot wrote:
if I have three settlers on the world, and I know if I remove a red die [elsewhere] I can [complete] the world, then I can remove the red die [and complete the world].
Correct.

Quote:
This brings me to another point: if I have six settlers and the red die, can I move the six settlers [...]
No. Settlers are moved onto the world construction stack *one at a time* (see the Settle rules). So, there is no just before "tick". Either you have moved 5 or fewer dice onto the stack -- and have not completed the 6 world -- or you have moved 6 dice onto the world and have completed it.

Once you have between 3 and 5 dice on the stack, you could use CS to remove a red die elsewhere and complete this world. In the 4 or 5 die cases, you would then have dice on your construction stack that might complete some tile(s) below the 6 world. Otherwise, you would continue adding dice one at a time and completing worlds as before.
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Milo Gertjejansen
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Tom Lehmann wrote:

No. Settlers are moved onto the world construction stack *one at a time* (see the Settle rules). So, there is no just before "tick". Either you have moved 5 or fewer dice onto the stack -- and have not completed the 6 world -- or you have moved 6 dice onto the world and have completed it.
Oh man! Thanks for the clarification! I knew that explorers resolved one at a time (because that is obvious why it matters) but I was not aware that other phases did.

In almost all cases it wouldn't really matter if you moved the dice one at a time or just enough dice all at once, but here.. It does!

Every time I play this game I am amazed at how deep it can get. I am a huge fan of timing concerns. Understanding them in a game is often what makes a player great.
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Pierre Beri
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
B is legal but an incomplete statement of the rules, in that the die could come from anywhere; it need not be on the world. See the clarification of Die Removal on page 2 of the Ambition rules.
I know. My point was:
beri2 wrote:
In the case where you remove a red die that is on the world you want to complete...
And thanks for the reply. However:
Tom Lehmann wrote:
I see no issue in the tile's wording.
I do. Unless I've missed something somewhere in the rules, how can you claim to be "before completing a world" when there are N-3 dice on it?
 
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Tom Lehmann
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beri2 wrote:
how can you claim to be "before completing a world" when there are N-3 dice on it?
The wording is "*just* before", NOT "before".

Perhaps this is an English/French language issue. "Just before X, Y" specifies that immediately before X, Y can occur.
 
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Joe Masinter
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This tile is so crazy good I'm considering a house rule to nerf it. Near the end of the game you don't care about keeping your dice, and it's pretty easy to get several 4-6 cost planets to burn through, so the ability essentially becomes "3 points for each of your red dice". That's easily better than any 6 cost development ability or bonus point scoring.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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joeeoj010 wrote:
This tile is so crazy good I'm considering a house rule to nerf it. Near the end of the game you don't care about keeping your dice, and it's pretty easy to get several 4-6 cost planets to burn through, so the ability essentially becomes "3 points for each of your red dice". That's easily better than any 6 cost development ability or bonus point scoring.
Really? Say, you have 3 red dice, a 4, 5, and 6 cost world in your tableau, and manage to roll/reassign 6 dice to all be on Settle. Then, you can destroy your red dice and spend 1,2,3 non-red dice to place 15 points of worlds. That's pretty sweet.

But, let's say you have GalFed in play, System Diversification in your construction stack, and 6 dice assigned to Develop. You build System Diversification for a net of 4 dice spent, 2 back to the cup, which gains you +11 points (+2 for GalFed and a minimum of 6+3 for System Diversification), plus more if you have any other Reassign developments. 11+ VPs for net 4 dice is roughly on par with 15 VPs for 6 dice, except on the absolute final turn.
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Ed Hess
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Perhaps. However, we have the same thought of nerfing CS. Finding the right 6-dev for you is a hunt, and typically only one or two are especially good. Finding random big worlds is pretty easy.

I would love to see more discussion on the CS topic, as we have only been playing it for 5-10 games and have found it to be the deciding factor whenever it comes up.

But we are also only playing 2-p and have alternative house rules for the random die (as that was frequently a deciding factor, too), and it is possible that that is improving CS a bit or that the 2-p game slants its goodness somehow. (Our house rule is that in lieu of the random white die, compare non-selected dice placement for both players, adding them for each phase not selected. If there is a clear maximum - no ties - then that phase occurs as the "random" phase.)
 
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