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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mormon-church-makes-same-se...

Yes, being adopted by gay parents is now a sin.
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Well, it does say you can reapply for salvation when you are 18. They probably have some process to save you if you die before then. They go back and convert other faiths after they die, so it should be a simple process.
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The gay couples is partially understandable given their stance on homosexuality, but their kids?? About the only thing their policy will do is disenfranchise those kids. I'd be curious to see how many of those kids actually "apply" to come back into the fold. I suspect that won't be a high number.
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Geosphere wrote:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mormon-church-makes-same-se...

Yes, being adopted by gay parents is now a sin.
Those kids should have thought of that when they allowed themselves to be adopted.
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abadolato01 wrote:
The gay couples is partially understandable given their stance on homosexuality, but their kids?? About the only thing their policy will do is disenfranchise those kids. I'd be curious to see how many of those kids actually "apply" to come back into the fold. I suspect that won't be a high number.
I think they're counting on that.
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Well the bible does say suffer the little children.
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slatersteven wrote:
Well the bible does say suffer the little children.
I always assumed that meant that the they little children were the cause of the suffering.
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The excommunication of practicing gays is nothing new. Not even remotely new. The long list of other stuff that can lead to excommunication that wasn't highlighted also isn't new.

I don't know if the thing about naming and blessing a child in a gay household is new or not, and it seems a little awkward (in particular point 2), even if it's not a saving ordinance, which isn't. Certainly the apostate parents, who have been excommunicated won't be able to do that or baptize their children. Seems like someone else should be able to, though, if the parents allow it. I'm sure they will either speak to this or change it at some point. If the thing forwarded to the press is legit.

Also, nowhere does it say being adopted by a gay couple is a sin or that one doesn't qualify for salvation if one is adopted by gay parents. You're reading that into it.
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cbazler wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
The gay couples is partially understandable given their stance on homosexuality, but their kids?? About the only thing their policy will do is disenfranchise those kids. I'd be curious to see how many of those kids actually "apply" to come back into the fold. I suspect that won't be a high number.
I think they're counting on that.
I'm certain they're not. In my experience, there is no end of agonizing over any individual that leaves the church for just about any reason.
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ejmowrer wrote:
The excommunication of practicing gays who is nothing new. Not even remotely new. The long list of other stuff that can lead to excommunication that wasn't highlighted also isn't new.

I don't know if the thing about naming and blessing a child in a gay household is new or not, and it seems a little awkward (in particular point 2), even if it's not a saving ordinance, which isn't. Certainly the apostate parents, who have been excommunicated won't be able to do that or baptize their children. Seems like someone else should be able to, though, if the parents allow it. I'm sure they will either speak to this or change it at some point. If the thing forwarded to the press is legit.

Also, nowhere does it say being adopted by a gay couple is a sin or that one doesn't qualify for salvation if one is adopted by gay parents. You're reading that into it.
I think that is what people are saying, that these children have committed no sin, so why are they being refused the sacrament (and thus salvation)?
 
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slatersteven wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
The excommunication of practicing gays who is nothing new. Not even remotely new. The long list of other stuff that can lead to excommunication that wasn't highlighted also isn't new.

I don't know if the thing about naming and blessing a child in a gay household is new or not, and it seems a little awkward (in particular point 2), even if it's not a saving ordinance, which isn't. Certainly the apostate parents, who have been excommunicated won't be able to do that or baptize their children. Seems like someone else should be able to, though, if the parents allow it. I'm sure they will either speak to this or change it at some point. If the thing forwarded to the press is legit.

Also, nowhere does it say being adopted by a gay couple is a sin or that one doesn't qualify for salvation if one is adopted by gay parents. You're reading that into it.
I think that is what people are saying, that these children have committed no sin, so why are they being refused the sacrament (and thus salvation)?
As I said, the naming and blessing of a child is not a saving ordinance. I don't know the reason behind it, though. My best guess would be that it tacitly approves of the improper marriage arrangement and improper family structure.

The confusing thing, however, is that I believe you may receive that ordinance if you're a child of parents living together unmarried. But I could be wrong about that. I know for certain the parents don't have to be active and in good standing of the church. I've seen plenty of baby blessings done by an uncle or cousin or someone else.
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ejmowrer wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
The excommunication of practicing gays who is nothing new. Not even remotely new. The long list of other stuff that can lead to excommunication that wasn't highlighted also isn't new.

I don't know if the thing about naming and blessing a child in a gay household is new or not, and it seems a little awkward (in particular point 2), even if it's not a saving ordinance, which isn't. Certainly the apostate parents, who have been excommunicated won't be able to do that or baptize their children. Seems like someone else should be able to, though, if the parents allow it. I'm sure they will either speak to this or change it at some point. If the thing forwarded to the press is legit.

Also, nowhere does it say being adopted by a gay couple is a sin or that one doesn't qualify for salvation if one is adopted by gay parents. You're reading that into it.
I think that is what people are saying, that these children have committed no sin, so why are they being refused the sacrament (and thus salvation)?
As I said, the naming and blessing of a child is not a saving ordinance. I don't know the reason behind it, though. My best guess would be that it tacitly approves of the improper marriage arrangement and improper family structure.

The confusing thing, however, is that I believe you may receive that ordinance if you're a child of parents living together unmarried. But I could be wrong about that. I know for certain the parents don't have to be active and in good standing of the church. I've seen plenty of baby blessings done by an uncle or cousin or someone else.
Quote:
Mormon children are normally blessed as infants and entered into the LDS Church records. Most Mormon children are baptized around age 8, an act that Mormons believe is a covenant with God and essential to salvation.
So until they are baptized they are unable to receive salvation.
 
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And the quoted piece is legit as far as I can tell.
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I'm guessing the policy is about the adults, not the kids - the policy is designed to discourage gay couples from adopting on the basis of "If you do, your children will go to hell." If I thought I was going to cause a child irreparable harm, I wouldn't adopt.
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slatersteven wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
The excommunication of practicing gays who is nothing new. Not even remotely new. The long list of other stuff that can lead to excommunication that wasn't highlighted also isn't new.

I don't know if the thing about naming and blessing a child in a gay household is new or not, and it seems a little awkward (in particular point 2), even if it's not a saving ordinance, which isn't. Certainly the apostate parents, who have been excommunicated won't be able to do that or baptize their children. Seems like someone else should be able to, though, if the parents allow it. I'm sure they will either speak to this or change it at some point. If the thing forwarded to the press is legit.

Also, nowhere does it say being adopted by a gay couple is a sin or that one doesn't qualify for salvation if one is adopted by gay parents. You're reading that into it.
I think that is what people are saying, that these children have committed no sin, so why are they being refused the sacrament (and thus salvation)?
As I said, the naming and blessing of a child is not a saving ordinance. I don't know the reason behind it, though. My best guess would be that it tacitly approves of the improper marriage arrangement and improper family structure.

The confusing thing, however, is that I believe you may receive that ordinance if you're a child of parents living together unmarried. But I could be wrong about that. I know for certain the parents don't have to be active and in good standing of the church. I've seen plenty of baby blessings done by an uncle or cousin or someone else.
Quote:
Mormon children are normally blessed as infants and entered into the LDS Church records. Most Mormon children are baptized around age 8, an act that Mormons believe is a covenant with God and essential to salvation.
So until they are baptized they are unable to receive salvation.
That's not true, either. See TheChin!'s flippant, but essentially true comment above.

Almost nobody is unable to receive salvation in time.
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mmazala wrote:
I'm guessing the policy is about the adults, not the kids - the policy is designed to discourage gay couples from adopting on the basis of "If you do, your children will go to hell." If I thought I was going to cause a child irreparable harm, I wouldn't adopt.
Unlikely, as we don't believe unbaptized children go to hell. Nor do we really believe in the concept of hell as taught by contemporary Christian faiths.
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ejmowrer wrote:
And the quoted piece is legit as far as I can tell.
Quote:
Through the ordinance of baptism, we make a promise, called a covenant, with God. We promise to accept Christ, to become His followers, and to keep His commandments to the end of our lives. In return, our Heavenly Father promises to forgive our sins and let us return to live with Him, provided we keep our covenants.
So without baptism their sins cannot be forgiven, and they cannot return to live with him.

Of course they can be baptized after death, but until, them (and until someone bothers) they are unable to live with god. So the children are indeed being punished to teach the parents a lesson.
 
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Gay marriage is seriously against God's commandments. It's that simple.

When you are baptized into the church, you agree to keep God's commandments. If you enter into a gay marriage after that, that's a seriously broken promise to God.

The people are welcomed back if they repent.

I'm grateful for a modern prophet and church leaders who teach God's commandments, and do not seek "to become popular in the eyes of the world" (1 Nephi 22:23).

The OP is wrong about the church saying the kids are sinners.
Some unofficial thoughts on the baptizing-children part of this:

http://wellbehavedmormonwoman.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/respons...


[Added]
The official church explanation about the OP


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tesuji wrote:
Gay marriage is seriously against God's commandments. It's that simple.

I'm grateful for a modern prophet and church leaders who teach God's commandments, and do not seek "to become popular in the eyes of the world" (1 Nephi 22:23).

The OP is wrong about the church saying the kids are sinners.
Some unofficial thoughts on the baptizing-children part of this:

http://wellbehavedmormonwoman.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/respons...

But is being the child of a gay? OK kick out married gays if you think it is a sin, but why deny the children access to the church? If they are not sinners why are they apostated?
 
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slatersteven wrote:
tesuji wrote:
Gay marriage is seriously against God's commandments. It's that simple.

I'm grateful for a modern prophet and church leaders who teach God's commandments, and do not seek "to become popular in the eyes of the world" (1 Nephi 22:23).

The OP is wrong about the church saying the kids are sinners.
Some unofficial thoughts on the baptizing-children part of this:

http://wellbehavedmormonwoman.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/respons...

But is being a gay child? OK kick out married gays if you think it is a sin, but why deny the children access to the church?
Some unofficial thoughts on the baptizing-children part of this:

http://wellbehavedmormonwoman.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/respons...
 
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Also, to clarify, gay spouses and their kids are welcome to attend church meetings, to pray, to read scriptures, etc.
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tesuji wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
tesuji wrote:
Gay marriage is seriously against God's commandments. It's that simple.

I'm grateful for a modern prophet and church leaders who teach God's commandments, and do not seek "to become popular in the eyes of the world" (1 Nephi 22:23).

The OP is wrong about the church saying the kids are sinners.
Some unofficial thoughts on the baptizing-children part of this:

http://wellbehavedmormonwoman.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/respons...

But is being a gay child? OK kick out married gays if you think it is a sin, but why deny the children access to the church?
Some unofficial thoughts on the baptizing-children part of this:

http://wellbehavedmormonwoman.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/respons...
As you have rejected "unofficial" sources so can we, what has the church said about this (and is any of what your source says official doctrine)?
 
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The children can still be baptized.

The official wording isn't on the church website yet, that I can find. But here's the article in the church-owned news paper:


LDS Church reaffirms doctrine of marriage, updates policies on families in same-sex marriages

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has made changes to its handbook for stake presidents, bishops and other local leaders that reaffirms its doctrine of marriage and offers clarification on issues that may arise from same-sex marriage.

"Church handbooks are policy and procedural guides for lay leaders who must administer the church in many varied circumstances throughout the world," LDS Church spokesman Eric Hawkins said. "The Church has long been on record as opposing same-sex marriages.

While it respects the law of the land, and acknowledges the right of others to think and act differently, it does not perform or accept same-sex marriage within its membership.”

The handbook now includes being in a same-sex marriage under the definition of apostasy and as a circumstance that requires the convening of a disciplinary council. The handbook also clarifies that the ordinance of naming and blessing a child may not be performed for children living with a parent in a same-gender relationship.

The new section of the handbook is listed under the heading "Children of a Parent Living in a Same-Gender Relationship." It states that "a natural or adopted child of a parent living in a same-gender relationship, whether the couple is married or cohabiting, may not receive a name and a blessing."

Although children are not officially considered members of the LDS Church until they are baptized at age 8, the blessing of a child creates a membership record. Children are not considered accountable or mature enough to receive baptism until the age of 8.

The handbook addition also states that "a natural or adopted child of a parent living in a same-gender relationship, whether the couple is married or cohabiting," can only be baptized, confirmed, ordained to the priesthood or serve a full-time mission with approval from the Office of the First Presidency. A mission or stake president may request approval and determine that: "the child accepts and is committed to live the teachings and doctrine of the church, and specifically disavows the practice of same-gender cohabitation and marriage"; and "the child is of legal age and does not live with a parent who has lived or currently lives in a same-gender cohabitation relationship or marriage."

The language of being in a same-gender marriage has been added to the definition of apostasy as it relates to helping leaders know when a church disciplinary council is mandatory.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865640835/Church-updates-...
 
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tesuji wrote:
The children can still be baptized.

The official wording isn't on the church website yet, that I can find. But here's the article in the church-owned news paper:


LDS Church reaffirms doctrine of marriage, updates policies on families in same-sex marriages

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has made changes to its handbook for stake presidents, bishops and other local leaders that reaffirms its doctrine of marriage and offers clarification on issues that may arise from same-sex marriage.

"Church handbooks are policy and procedural guides for lay leaders who must administer the church in many varied circumstances throughout the world," LDS Church spokesman Eric Hawkins said. "The Church has long been on record as opposing same-sex marriages.

While it respects the law of the land, and acknowledges the right of others to think and act differently, it does not perform or accept same-sex marriage within its membership.”

The handbook now includes being in a same-sex marriage under the definition of apostasy and as a circumstance that requires the convening of a disciplinary council. The handbook also clarifies that the ordinance of naming and blessing a child may not be performed for children living with a parent in a same-gender relationship.

The new section of the handbook is listed under the heading "Children of a Parent Living in a Same-Gender Relationship." It states that "a natural or adopted child of a parent living in a same-gender relationship, whether the couple is married or cohabiting, may not receive a name and a blessing."

Although children are not officially considered members of the LDS Church until they are baptized at age 8, the blessing of a child creates a membership record. Children are not considered accountable or mature enough to receive baptism until the age of 8.

The handbook addition also states that "a natural or adopted child of a parent living in a same-gender relationship, whether the couple is married or cohabiting," can only be baptized, confirmed, ordained to the priesthood or serve a full-time mission with approval from the Office of the First Presidency. A mission or stake president may request approval and determine that: "the child accepts and is committed to live the teachings and doctrine of the church, and specifically disavows the practice of same-gender cohabitation and marriage"; and "the child is of legal age and does not live with a parent who has lived or currently lives in a same-gender cohabitation relationship or marriage."

The language of being in a same-gender marriage has been added to the definition of apostasy as it relates to helping leaders know when a church disciplinary council is mandatory.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865640835/Church-updates-...
So a child can only be baptized if it DOES NOT LIVE WITH A A gay parent, that is so different.
 
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tesuji wrote:
Also, to clarify, gay spouses and their kids are welcome to attend church meetings, to pray, to read scriptures, etc.
Yes, attend church with us, pray with us, read scriptures with us, but you gays (and your kids) will still burn in the hellfires. Now that's what I'm talking about, good old church compassion.
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