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Subject: Getting something wrong? rss

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K A
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Tulsa
Oklahoma
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So we played this game for the first time using the Dorylaeum scenario. The Turks flight = 45 and the Crusader's flight is at 70 so it seems that it should be possible for the Turk's to inflict a lot of damage. However, I was running up against the following (please point out any errors in rules or calculations)

Firing at a knight:
1. Even if he is disordered when hit he won't Retire, just retreat.
2. When shooting at him you get
a. +1 for being an archer (using the Turk Cav)
b. Nothing for Angle fire since he is a knight (correct?)
c. -1 for being mounted
d. -1 cause he is a knight
So the modifier = -1

3. Since he wont retire (?) you have to eliminate him which requires a result of 8 or more. With the -1 modifier you must roll a 9 (since 0 counts as 0 not 10). So you have only a 10% chance of elimination.

4. So is the only real chance of eliminating the knight to use 2-3 pieces to move behind him to block retreat (assuming he is that exposed) and they should not fire to keep from moving him back with rereat so that another piece can attack and hopefully get a retreat result for the kill?

Basically the game turned into the tanks, er Knights, running amok.

Missing strategy? Errors? Loved the game's maneuver and still am looking forward to another game if we achieve some hope of balance.
Thanks!
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Jason Lindsay
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Soquel
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Totally randomly Braxton...
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You got it correct. Knights are very hard to kill. As the Muslim player, you must be cautious in your attack strategy. I've had success by maneuvering my Muslim units into 2 lines, one line as bait for the knights, and the 2nd line as a reserve. When the knights attack, and must advance after combat, I can sometimes corner and surround them. You have to be very patient as the muslim player and let the impetuousness of the knights work towards their disadvantage. If you don't then they turn into tanks and annihilate much of what is in their path.

By minimizing their ability to charge you, by closing the distance between the Muslim and Christian units, you will also reduce their dominance some.

Infidel is one of my favorite tactical games from this period. I playing the Battle of Harran on Tuesday.
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K A
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Tulsa
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Thanks, with the Flight conditions it looked like the Turks must have some ability to kill in bulk some easy targets but I'm not seeing it yet. Maybe the flight conditions are meant as a way of showing the armies' strength. I went in thinking they were a balancing mechanism.

Another question...

On retreat before combat against a charge, is the retreat made before or after the attacking unit makes its charge move? If before, and you cannot get far enough away, does the charge still succeed in delivering an attack?
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Jason Smith
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The retreat is made after the knight has been moved adjacent to the defending unit. So there is never an issue of a retreating unit being unable to get away from the charging unit. While a charging unit starts one to two hexes away from a defending unit, combat is not conducted until the charging unit is adjacent to the defending unit.

While knights are like tanks, they can't do any damage if they can't catch their target. It's the ability of the light cavalry archers to fire while moving and retreat before combat that makes them so effective against knights.

Also keep in mind that while a missile unit can only fire once per activation, there is no limit on the number of times a knight can receive missile fire. So while the probability of any one missile unit eliminating a disordered knight is only 10%, the probability of getting one elimination result in, say, three attempts from three different mounted archers is 24.3%.

With a combination of missile fire while moving, multiple missile fire on a knight, constant retreat before combat and encirclement to cut off a knight's retreat, defeating the Crusaders is not as hard as it might first appear, and indeed I have defeated the Crusaders as the Turkish player plenty of times.

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K A
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Thanks,
Looking forward to the next game. Of course, I had my typical die rolling of 7 units attacking a single knight without scoring that hit :-)
 
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Michael
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We few,we happy few,we band of brothers;For he today that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother: be he ne’er so vile;And gentlemen in England now-abed Shall think themself accurs’d they were no here That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.
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Playing Antioch in the morning

Only second attempt, first we forgot about retreat before combat and the starting mounted muslim archers were annihilated before anything else by 3 successive continuation rolls shake



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Ralph Shelton
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Dorylaeum is more difficult for the Turks than some of the other battles, since the MC/A cannot Retreat before a Charge. The infantry in the camp is easy pickings, as are Peter the Hermit and his units.

Braxton's tactics are the right ones, goad the Knights into Counter-Chargung vs Fire (Remember that this is automatic and not a choice is without their leader in Command Range, even it is a restraint roll), then surround them and kill them once they have broken ranks. They can only Counter-Chrge on e per Activation, then they are more vulnerable.
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