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Subject: Dear FFG could this be a complete game rather than one that is stripped back... rss

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Daniel James
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...for future 'expansions'.

It would just be nice to know that I am interested in a full game and not the modular sales formula you are following of late.

It's akin to in app purchases on iPad or day one DLC on consoles/PC. Nasty.

That being said the game looks fantastic.

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Dave Weiss
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Well good news, based on the item code system used by FFG, they are considering this a stand-alone product.
That doesn't mean they can't release an expansion later, but it's not likely to be a product where they push constant updates like X-wing, Armada, and IA.

However, a product like IA is a perfectly playable and complete game in and of itself. The larger expansions certainly expand your gameplay a bit, but the smaller sets really don't do much for the non-competitive market.

I honestly think your problem has more to do with your definition of a complete game. I speak from experience there, and totally understand.
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Mike Ptak
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I don't really see how this game can be presented as a constant-expansion animal. Imperial Assault at least offers the suggestion for constant new characters to add to battles, and X-Wing/Armada always present new ships.

But what's the faucet from which new expansions are going to stream from, for this game?

At worst I imagine one or two large-ish box expansions Civilization style which give us new map sections to complete the pie and maybe another faction. Sparse units to spruce up Empire/Imperial play, but nothing much beyond that.

Based on what I see I'm thinking it's going to be a satisfactory game out the box. After a few plays the flaws will be a little known and up for correction in an expansion that also enhances gameplay. I doubt we'll experience a deluge of expansions.
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David Dawson
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They could release small expansion packs with a couple new cards, units, or leaders, sort of like the expansions for War of the Ring second edition. That and maybe a few scenarios would be great with me.
 
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Dave Weiss
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Well, they could do small expansions with more characters, units, abilities/events. I don't see it happening though.
"Expand your ability to control the hyperspace lanes in Star Wars: Rebellion with the Space Expansion pack. This pack contains the Tie Int, A-wing, 4 new characters, 2 new missions for both factions, the Victory class cruiser and the Assault Frigate!"
Then toss in a ground pack that has wookiee soldiers, dark troopers, etc, etc...


At most I see 1 large expansion for this game and that would be it, although it may never even see that.
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Duncan Idaho
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I'm looking forward to scenario packs - new cards, versions of characters, and setups that reflect different moments in the history of Star Wars.
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Nick Johnson
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I'm guessing sometime after Dec 18th there will be a Force Awakens expansion.
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Daniel James
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I am just a little concerned that FFG might do what they did with Eldritch Horror. EH felt stripped back to me and then card expansions arrived within a few weeks of the release.

It felt like the expansions should've been in the game to start with.

I am very excited about Rebellion I just think our hobby gets price gouged quite a bit these days.
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Just another Mike
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PC games have been holding back stuff for years to release as DLC. It is the times we live in. PC or Board games.
 
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D Clevenger
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Microbadge: ChristianMicrobadge: Cooper Island fanMicrobadge: ASL fanMicrobadge: That's no moon!Microbadge: Long Distance Running fan
Dear customer,

How about your choice:

a) $99 price point for everything in one box and 33% of the people complain that they can't afford it;

or

b) $59 price point for base game and 2-3 expansions over the next 12 months at $14.99-$19.99 each and 33% of the people complain that the base game is "stripped down".

Amazingly there will be a 10% overlap between these two groups.

Sincerely,

FFG
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Sergio Perez
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txaal wrote:
Dear customer,

How about your choice:

a) $99 price point for everything in one box and 33% of the people complain that they can't afford it;

or

b) $59 price point for base game and 2-3 expansions over the next 12 months at $14.99-$19.99 each and 33% of the people complain that the base game is "stripped down".

Amazingly there will be a 10% overlap between these two groups.

Sincerely,

FFG
This game has a $99.95 price tag on it, so hopefully FFG will fulfill the "everything in one box" model as illustrated in a) above. Otherwise, we're looking at option c) a stripped down game at a $99 price point.

Judging by the little information available, it sure seems like this one will be a wonderfully full experience right out of the box. Has a very Star War of the Ring appearance, so I would expect a similar style of expansions, if any.
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Jeffrey Smith
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I can't help but wonder if they will have two more map boards to complete the circle.
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The price-point is $99 already!

Assuming there is other content, which that has not been established anywhere, I wouldn't want to see it added increasing the MRSP over $100!
 
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Bernd Caspers
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gamesontables wrote:
The price-point is $99 already!

Assuming there is other content, which that has not been established anywhere, I wouldn't want to see it added increasing the MRSP over $100!
When triple A videogames were typically 50$, many people stated they would never spend more on a video game. Nowadays, new triple A videogames are listed at 60$ or more and one preorder record after the other falls.

100$ is just a number, yes, there is certainly a psychological barrier, but otherwise a price increase to 104$ or 109$ is "just" 5$ or 10$ more, just like with any other price increase before.

Do I like it that such games are already at 99$? No.
Would I be annoyed if they increase in price even more? Yes.
Would I stop buying great games, because of that? Nope.

Let's face it, prices for games will further increase in the future and we will still buy them, whatever we said before. shake
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Eirik Johnsbråten
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The way I see it there is a difference between games like Eldritch Horror and games like Runewars and Forbidden Stars. In the former you play to see what happens. The game comes up with content and experiences. You play games like this to be entertained. But you can only be entertained for so long by the same content, so you'll need expansions to keep the game fresh.

In the latter, with games like Runewars, the game world is a toolbox for you to use to master the game experience. The next time you play and get that same card, you might decide to use that card differently, or maybe you're in a different situation altogether.

It all boils down to a very broad category that I'd call event cards. Cards that tell you what happens. How big of an impact those cards have on the experience defines to me if it's a "see what happens" game or a "make what happens" game. The encounter cards in Eldritch Horror basically makes the game. The closest you get to event cards in Runewars is the season cards. They can trip you up, but they don't define your play experience. You create that yourself.

And this is where I'm not so conserned about Rebellion. The game doesn't feed you with content that you'll be fed up with the third time you encounter it. It seems like the mission cards are much of the fluff that will create those story elements, but they are tools for you to create that story, and the same card will allow you to create another story the next time you play the game.
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Joshua Simone [The Quasi Geek Dad]
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They might have to do their games that way vecause of the licensing. Hasbro has the Star Wars license for board games where FFG only have miniature games. So the model of how they release the game might have to do with the restrictions they have due to that.
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Brad Gravett
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Here's my interpretation of the shadows on the wall of Plato's cave here. I think this is the true distinction that people are seeing:

1) Self-contained games - games that are more or less complete out-of-the-box. The hallmark of this style is that all the decisions that lead to the final outcome are made after the game itself begins. All of the game's components are in one box. The rules, design and balance only have to accommodate a finite amount of interactions. There can be expansions for this game, sure, but the spirit of a "self-contained game" is that strategic decisions are limited to a game session. Even games like Dominion and Red Dragon Inn, with their myriad expansions, fall into this category.

2) Metagame-driven games - games that operate on two levels: the direct interactions between players during a match, and indirect interactions as players try to anticipate other strategies outside of a match. The hallmark here is that players customize or build a deck of cards or squadron of military units before they can begin a match. Expansions are essential because players need customization options to effectively compete. The rules, design and balance have to accommodate a potentially infinite amount of interactions. This, of course, is the style of games such as Magic: The Gathering and Warmachine and such.

The distinction is valid because the two styles seem to be at odds. Both styles have to be designed in two very different ways. Fantasy Flight tries to have their cake and eat it too by designing metagame-driven games that have a big fat "core set" that can be sold as self-contained game - see their LCGs and their notable Star Wars games. Sometimes they're successful, as is the case of Imperial Assault; sometimes not so much, as is the cases of X-Wing and Armada.

Sometimes people resent FFG for this, selling the "core set" as a self-contained game. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, because I understand the distinction and I enjoy both style of games. However I can also sympathize with people disappointed with the X-Wing core set et al as a self-contained experience. Core sets can be done right, and they can be done wrong. It's only when a core set is done wrong that people feel cheated (we could also tangent into a discussion about video game DLC and free-to-play games at this point).

Of the two, Rebellion definitely appears to be in the first style. It seems to show all signs of being a self-contained game. We can say with certainty that FFG will publish expansions for it, but they won't be necessary to enjoying the game and competing effectively. Players won't have to customize their components ahead of time, and won't have to purchase expansions to support that customization.
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Dennis Schwarz
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You are certainly right that these two types of games exist, but I think you forget that there are also games such as Imperial Assault / Descent, etc. that are ready to play out of the box and thus self-contained. But there still are tons of expansions to buy, since you sort of "play through" them and finish the storyline of such games, so new material is needed to extend the lifetime of the game.
Also there are expansions that add to the gaming experience or flesh out certain parts of the core game even more (like the Vader / Luke / Han, etc. mini expansions). These are not really needed, but still make the game feel incomplete.

That said, I also think that Rebellion falls into the self-contained category and I certainly hope they don't pull off a "Millenium Falcon", "Slave 1", etc. mini-expansion selling strategy on this one!
 
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K
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Well, I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with expansions in general since you can just ignore them, no matter how many there are.

The problem is only if the base game needs expansions to fix it, or if it comes with so little variety that it screams "incomplete"

Seems fairly obvious to me though that this one is a "real board game." Everything from the presentation to the price tag to the description of the game tells me that this has more in common with a self-contained game than a game system that has an anemic "core set" as an entry point. Entry points don't come with 150 miniatures and cost $100.

FFG pretty much always keeps expanding games that are successful until they stop selling or there are absolutely no ideas left so that part should come as no surprise.
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Eirik Johnsbråten
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SirHandsome wrote:
The problem is only if the base game needs expansions to fix it, or if it comes with so little variety that it screams "incomplete"
This.
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Thomas Koziatek
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Norsehound wrote:
I don't really see how this game can be presented as a constant-expansion animal. Imperial Assault at least offers the suggestion for constant new characters to add to battles, and X-Wing/Armada always present new ships.

But what's the faucet from which new expansions are going to stream from, for this game?
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More galaxies, even longer ago and even further away!
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Daniel James
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Tjohei wrote:
SirHandsome wrote:
The problem is only if the base game needs expansions to fix it, or if it comes with so little variety that it screams "incomplete"
This.
This was my point entirely.
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Escoffery
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Captain Murdercasket wrote:
I am just a little concerned that FFG might do what they did with Eldritch Horror. EH felt stripped back to me and then card expansions arrived within a few weeks of the release.

It felt like the expansions should've been in the game to start with.
Yup. While EH is my favorite game the very first time I played it and we went through the stupid encounter deck twice I knew that this game was incomplete. It took the additional cards from the two smaller expansions just for this game to not have that problem of repeating stuff in a single game.
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Max Lampinen
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I have no idea what the mechanics are but with "170 cards and miniatures, and 25 leaders " it sounds like pretty solid package to me. I have no doubt that there will be expansions, but Imperial Assault was very full package for its price too, despite having inevitable trail of expansions.
 
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Tim Glaser
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max_s wrote:
I have no idea what the mechanics are but with "170 cards and miniatures, and 25 leaders " it sounds like pretty solid package to me. I have no doubt that there will be expansions, but Imperial Assault was very full package for its price too, despite having inevitable trail of expansions.
This is my thinking also.

With X-Wing and Armada it's clear you're getting into a game where the expansions will grow the game significantly, and maybe the 'base' game does feel quite limited, but with IA that base game would represent hours and hours of gaming for most. At which point, if you're playing the game so much that you have consumed all the content that the base game provides, aren't you happy that expansions are following with new units and scenarios?
 
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