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Swords and Bagpipes» Forums » Rules

Subject: Choice - deserters - awards rss

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Ferdinand Köther
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"Each player secretly chooses one of their two Choice tokens, ..."

Even if they don't have any units in their camp? What for, they don't get any rewards, alas no dagger cards. Even if those would not count as "award" a player w/o any fighting units would decide for Scotland, in order to avoid daggers. Their choice has no impact on the outcome.

So I'd say a player w/o any units in their camp doesn't need to choose - or am I missing something?
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Yan Yegorov
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Yes, you are right.

Though there is not much point of putting zero troops in the fight.
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Ferdinand Köther
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Yes, you're right, too, of course!

Thanks for your answer! Nice game !
 
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Scott Cameron

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Hi! There are several Bagpipe cards (i.e. Ambush!) that let players move armies into their camp. So I think even players without units in their camp should have to choose a side since they may wind up having armies after all.
 
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Ferdinand Köther
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Steelkilt wrote:
Hi! There are several Bagpipe cards (i.e. Ambush!) that let players move armies into their camp. So I think even players without units in their camp should have to choose a side since they may wind up having armies after all.


You play "Ambush" before choices are revealed, so if you don't use it, you have no armies in your camp (if you had none before).
If you use it, you have armies in your camp and of course must choose a side.
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Kevin John
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Correct me if I'm wrong (going off memory) but I believe there are cards that grant rewards based off of which side you are, so every player that chose Scotland gets 2 coins for example. In this case if someone else played that card you could potentially be missing out.
 
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Ferdinand Köther
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kevinjohn3d wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong (going off memory) but I believe there are cards that grant rewards based off of which side you are, so every player that chose Scotland gets 2 coins for example. In this case if someone else played that card you could potentially be missing out.


A player w/o any armies in their camp does not collect any rewards, even if they had chosen a side. No contribution - no reward, as easy as that
 
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Scott Cameron

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lucyfer wrote:
Steelkilt wrote:
Hi! There are several Bagpipe cards (i.e. Ambush!) that let players move armies into their camp. So I think even players without units in their camp should have to choose a side since they may wind up having armies after all.


You play "Ambush" before choices are revealed, so if you don't use it, you have no armies in your camp (if you had none before).
If you use it, you have armies in your camp and of course must choose a side.


I don't think this is correct. Aren't Bagpipe cards played after choices are made but before they're revealed? In that case you should have a choice token selected before the card is played to put arnies into your camp.
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Yan Yegorov
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Yes, you are right, I was wrong. You should choose your side just in case of an "Ambush" or "For Scotland". I didn't thought about that.

Hundredes of play-tests - that didn't happened once.

It is still true about rewards. The deserter must be treated just like the player with "Stay Home!" badge - no rewards, no bonuses or penalties from Bagpipes with a sack, cannot play Bagpipes himself.
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Ferdinand Köther
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Hmm, the rules don't say that you play bagpipe cards after you've made your choice, just "Until the Choice tokens are revealed, ..."

And if you didn't choose a side (w/o armies in your camp), you're not a Scotland supporter, so "For Scotland" does not affect you.

A bit tricky, and I'd say you may play it this way or that way, and especially in respect to the "For Scotland" card it would have been good if the rules had said "Each player secretly must choose ...".

Even if this situation will happen rarely, as Yan pointed out, I'll read the rules as of now as "must".
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Denis Davydov
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That's right.

Let me summarize it.

1. If a player has no army in their Camp, he/she chooses their side, but does not get any rewards. That player can be a target for Bagpipe cards' effects before the Choice tokens are revealed, but then, he is out. Literally, that player stayed home. No rewards, no penalties, no benefits from award-phase Bagpipe cards, no love, no hate.

2. In particular, that player may lay down his Choice token having no army in their Camp. Then, before tha Choice tokens are revealed, that player plays Ambush! and moves some units from their Castle to their Camp. Now, all is ok, that player "is in". He has joined the battle.

I have to admit that Swords and Bagpipes rules does not clarify these moments. In general, the rules have it right, however it's far from obvious. As Yan said in his earlier post, we didn't think about this when we were preparing the rules, as this situation is extremely rare. Still that's bad that we didn't saw this moment!
 
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Ferdinand Köther
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Good summary, Denis,thanks for that!
So now the only slight vagueness of the rules is settled.
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