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Pandemic Legacy: Season 1» Forums » General

Subject: Has This Game "Converted" Anyone To The Legacy Format? rss

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Jeffrey Smith
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My personal preference is that if a game is going to change over time I want to be able to "reset" whenever I want. So I have never had an interest in Legacy style games. Risk Legacy was an easy pass since I have never liked Risk. But I do really like Pandemic.

However, the whole writing on the board, putting stickers on things, and ripping up cards has zero appeal to me.

So I'm just wondering if any of you once shared my opinion about Legacy games but have changed your mind since playing this game.

 
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tim thorson
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It changed my mind. One of the best gaming experiences I've had. It also makes you weigh your decisions more heavily as you have real consequences
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Michael Weber
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I am a true believer in the legacy system.

I used to despise it.

Pandemic legacy did this to me.

BRING ON MORE LEGACY GAMES!

(Heck, I am even considering to buy risk legacy despite risk being such a crap game)
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Nathanaël Dufour
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If you choose not to Rip up passed cards and just stash them away, pandemic Legacy is actually replayable save from a few minor details which would not stop me.

I really liked it.

The writing on the board is reduced to naming each disease, and writing on the cards to naming your characters...

There is quite a lot of stickers, but most of it can be taken off after your last game if you want to.

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Hector Castejon
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Just one detail: the stickers can be easily taken off from the board and cards, but NOT from other stickers. If you plan to take them off, and the game asks you cover a previous existing sticker, take off the first one

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Joao F. Falaschi
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jbbnbsmith wrote:
But I do really like Pandemic.


If you don't want to go all the way into Legacy, just keep playing Pandemic.
 
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Gamer D

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Osuniev wrote:
If you choose not to Rip up passed cards and just stash them away, pandemic Legacy is actually replayable save from a few minor details which would not stop me.

I really liked it.

The writing on the board is reduced to naming each disease, and writing on the cards to naming your characters...

There is quite a lot of stickers, but most of it can be taken off after your last game if you want to.



Or you could just buy another copy, that's what we did.
 
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Shawn Logan
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I myself was a little unsure on how I would handle a board game that potentially gets destroyed and may have an end.

After getting into Pandemic Legacy, I truly love not knowing what is coming next, the changes in the game for future games. I am looking very forward to the possibility of a season 2, seeing the box labeled season 1.

As stated earlier in replies I also am considering picking up risk legacy, not being a huge risk fan. The legacy aspect fascinates me.

I look at these games basically the same as a video game, I can get X number of hours for a set price. When I finish a video game I may have paid $60 for I never replay it.
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Oere Iere
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I was on the bubble about ripping up cards etc.. but after got the game and looked at everything, I was good to go. When it came time to rip up the first card, I didn't phase me at all. I think being able to reset a legacy game removes any tension from the actions you take. Basically, if you could reset a legacy game, I wouldn't play it. No point really.

While I'm in a privileged position to be able to afford a $55 game without issue, I don't see why people are so caught up with marking up the game.

My wife and I are playing with two friends. One couple buys take out for each game session. A single night of take out is within a couple of bucks of the price of the game and the game will last at least 6 sessions, likely more.

Legacy games are going to be a near autobuy for me from now on. I really think they have moved gaming to another level. It allows designers to really tell a story in a board game format.
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Erik K
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It absolutely changed my view. We just did an Extra Life Charity where we played through all 12 months of Pandemic Legacy in 21 hours of back to back games. It was one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. All told we played 16 games between two players. That comes out to just over $2 per person per game. So it isn't cheap by any means but it isn't horrifically expensive either.

After playing through if you are absolutely against ripping up, writing on, or otherwise altering your game, you *CAN* figure out a way to reset everything. During your original play through don't bother taking stickers off the panels and putting them in the rule book. For most other stickers that don't go on the rule book and go elsewhere, the stickers and item you're putting them on have a high enough gloss to enable returning it to the original backing. Any pieces that come out, make sure record what box they come from and return them to that box. That only leaves panic levels as the major pita. This is easily resolved by just using post it note paper and writing on them instead. The only items that are permanently altered are those you write on, so just don't do it, and some scratch off cards, which you'll just need to make sure you don't read on their second play through before you've actually completed the objective.

We played through without doing what I said above, meaning I put stickers in the books, on cards, etc. But i save all my pieces so that I could return it to the original state. However after looking at it, I'm not sure it's worth my time to put it back. The creators and publishers have done a phenomenal job creating this game and I really have little qualms about giving them another $2+ per person per game to go through it with another set of friends in the future.
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Paul Liolio
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Without really knowing what this game offers, why can't a legacy game be made without having to destroy it?

Do most gamers here not have the willpower to finish what they start?
Is the only point of playing a game, to win?

Sounds terrible to me. I'm sure I'd have a blast playing, but one reason I've fallen out of love with video games is the subscription, pay to play aspect that's becoming the norm.

I just want to pay for it, and be done with it, and be able to own and play it forever..
 
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Gamer D

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Polioliolio wrote:
Without really knowing what this game offers, why can't a legacy game be made without having to destroy it?.


That's like asking "why can't a cooperative game be made without having to play cooperatively?" Permanent changes to the game is a core design goal of Pandemic Legacy, it's intended from the start to be played that way. Yes I'm sure it is possible to make a campign version of Pandemic that doesn't permanently alter or destroy components and it would probably be a fine game but then it wouldn't be a Legacy game by definition.

Most people who actually play the game feel like they are getting their money's worth and that's all that matters.
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Clive Jones

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dugman wrote:
Polioliolio wrote:
Without really knowing what this game offers, why can't a legacy game be made without having to destroy it?.

That's like asking "why can't a cooperative game be made without having to play cooperatively?"

To be fair, it's possibly more like "why can't I play Poker for pretend money rather than real?"

I don't play Poker much, but when I do I seem to be good at it. I won't play for real money partly because I know I'd be less good, partly because if I remained good I'd feel bad about taking people's money.

There are plenty of people who say I miss a significant aspect of Poker by not playing for real money, and I don't doubt they're right. Even so, playing for pretend money (last time, we gave each chip a notional value of ten trillion dollars...) is a legitimate choice, and still a game.

As it happens, I fully intend to tangle, spindle and mutilate my copy of Pandemic Legacy, and hope to revel in the transgressive buzz that generates. I think people will miss out if they don't. But trying to play Pandemic Legacy without doing anything irrevesible to one's set isn't as fundamentally broken as trying to play Pandemic competitively rather than co-operatively.
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Gamer D

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clivej wrote:
dugman wrote:
Polioliolio wrote:
Without really knowing what this game offers, why can't a legacy game be made without having to destroy it?.

That's like asking "why can't a cooperative game be made without having to play cooperatively?"

To be fair, it's possibly more like "why can't I play Poker for pretend money rather than real?"

I don't play Poker much, but when I do I seem to be good at it. I won't play for real money partly because I know I'd be less good, partly because if I remained good I'd feel bad about taking people's money.

There are plenty of people who say I miss a significant aspect of Poker by not playing for real money, and I don't doubt they're right. Even so, playing for pretend money (last time, we gave each chip a notional value of ten trillion dollars...) is a legitimate choice, and still a game.

As it happens, I fully intend to tangle, spindle and mutilate my copy of Pandemic Legacy, and hope to revel in the transgressive buzz that generates. I think people will miss out if they don't. But trying to play Pandemic Legacy without doing anything irrevesible to one's set isn't as fundamentally broken as trying to play Pandemic competitively rather than co-operatively.


There are physical differences though between permanent stickers on the board, card and rulebook and having notepads and appendixes and such to allow for replayability. Using the permanent stickers makes keeping track pf the ongoing changes significantly easier than trying to look them up in unexpected places in a separate area. And by having city staus permanently marked on the map it saves time having to look back and forth between the map and a notepad of all the cities where you write down their individual states. So playing Pandemic Legacy as intended is physically quite a bit different than playing a similar game with reusable components and the game tries to take advantage of those features.

That's why I think it is more akin to changing the nature of the game than playing poker with fake money. It's not simply a tension device, it's also a device that enhances efficiency of play.
 
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Clive Jones

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dugman wrote:
There are physical differences though between permanent stickers on the board, card and rulebook and having notepads and appendixes and such to allow for replayability.

Oh, agreed.

But the question wasn't "why couldn't Pandemic Legacy have been made so you didn't have to destroy it?". The question was "why can't a legacy game be made without having to destroy it?" I can't see any fundamental reason you couldn't make a legacy game which is resettable, even if it would have been tricky with Pandemic.
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Adrian Rodriguez
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Mixo wrote:
I am a true believer in the legacy system.

I used to despise it.

Pandemic legacy did this to me.

BRING ON MORE LEGACY GAMES!

(Heck, am I even considering to buy risk legacy despite risk being such a crap game)


I totally recommend playing Risk Legacy if there are at least 4 people in your regular gaming group. 3 is not very enjoyable.
 
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Clive Jones

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I wrote:
But the question wasn't "why couldn't Pandemic Legacy have been made so you didn't have to destroy it?". The question was "why can't a legacy game be made without having to destroy it?" I can't see any fundamental reason you couldn't make a legacy game which is resettable, even if it would have been tricky with Pandemic.

Sure enough, having previously only seen the (gorgeous) artwork, I've just found out about the nature of T.I.M.E Stories.

It's not quite a legacy game, in that all you bring forward from one game to the next is your accumulated knowledge of the scenario, but certainly each game significantly affects the next and you only play it a limited number of times.

None of the components get modified at any stage. When you're done with it you could, for example, sell it to someone else and they could enjoy the same experience.

So, for me, it's a useful example of something really close to a resettable legacy game.
 
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Michael Weber
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clivej wrote:
I wrote:
But the question wasn't "why couldn't Pandemic Legacy have been made so you didn't have to destroy it?". The question was "why can't a legacy game be made without having to destroy it?" I can't see any fundamental reason you couldn't make a legacy game which is resettable, even if it would have been tricky with Pandemic.

Sure enough, having previously only seen the (gorgeous) artwork, I've just found out about the nature of T.I.M.E Stories.

It's not quite a legacy game, in that all you bring forward from one game to the next is your accumulated knowledge of the scenario, but certainly each game significantly affects the next and you only play it a limited number of times.

None of the components get modified at any stage. When you're done with it you could, for example, sell it to someone else and they could enjoy the same experience.

So, for me, it's a useful example of something really close to a resettable legacy game.


With the differnce that the game experience you will get from time stories is not even close to the one you will get from legacy...
 
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Gamer D

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clivej wrote:
dugman wrote:
There are physical differences though between permanent stickers on the board, card and rulebook and having notepads and appendixes and such to allow for replayability.

Oh, agreed.

But the question wasn't "why couldn't Pandemic Legacy have been made so you didn't have to destroy it?". The question was "why can't a legacy game be made without having to destroy it?" I can't see any fundamental reason you couldn't make a legacy game which is resettable, even if it would have been tricky with Pandemic.


And I answered that original question a few posts up. The answer being that by definition Legacy games are not resettable. Which is why I say that asking for a Legacy game to be replayable is like saying "I like meat by why does it have to come from an animal?" Because it's the definition of meat. Not being replayable is the definition of a Legacy game.
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Gamer D

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clivej wrote:
I wrote:
But the question wasn't "why couldn't Pandemic Legacy have been made so you didn't have to destroy it?". The question was "why can't a legacy game be made without having to destroy it?" I can't see any fundamental reason you couldn't make a legacy game which is resettable, even if it would have been tricky with Pandemic.

Sure enough, having previously only seen the (gorgeous) artwork, I've just found out about the nature of T.I.M.E Stories.

It's not quite a legacy game, in that all you bring forward from one game to the next is your accumulated knowledge of the scenario, but certainly each game significantly affects the next and you only play it a limited number of times.

None of the components get modified at any stage. When you're done with it you could, for example, sell it to someone else and they could enjoy the same experience.

So, for me, it's a useful example of something really close to a resettable legacy game.


FYI TIME Stories does, in fact, have elements that persist from one full adventure to the next. I won't go into spoilers here but I will say that when you complete the first adventure you will likely have access to "stuff" that you can use on later expansion adventures.
 
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Gamer D

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Mixo wrote:
clivej wrote:
I wrote:
But the question wasn't "why couldn't Pandemic Legacy have been made so you didn't have to destroy it?". The question was "why can't a legacy game be made without having to destroy it?" I can't see any fundamental reason you couldn't make a legacy game which is resettable, even if it would have been tricky with Pandemic.

Sure enough, having previously only seen the (gorgeous) artwork, I've just found out about the nature of T.I.M.E Stories.

It's not quite a legacy game, in that all you bring forward from one game to the next is your accumulated knowledge of the scenario, but certainly each game significantly affects the next and you only play it a limited number of times.

None of the components get modified at any stage. When you're done with it you could, for example, sell it to someone else and they could enjoy the same experience.

So, for me, it's a useful example of something really close to a resettable legacy game.


With the differnce that the game experience you will get from time stories is not even close to the one you will get from legacy...


I'm going to stick up for TIME Stories a moment here and say that the Asylum adventure was terrific, at least as good as the story in Pandemic Legacy if not better. Pandemic Legacy does beat TIME Stories in terms of overall game mechanics and the amount of time you can spend playing the game before needing to buy an expansion, but in terms of raw story and theme TIME Stories is just as good if not better.
 
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Jeremy Heilman
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If anything it had the opposite effect on me...

I loved Risk Legacy despite not especially liking Risk.

I love Pandemic, but found Pandemic Legacy to be wanting.

The legacy system works less well, I think, in a co-op game. In Risk Legacy it's a big deal to get to leave your mark on the world... it's a reward for winning or losing. Naming cities or nuking areas fits well within that game's theme and created more of a meta-story across your group's plays.

Here, I felt like I was running through a series of scenarios, with very little continuity from one mission to the next... Yes, cities grew more unstable, but that's a minor thing unless you're doing extremely poorly. I wished there were more decision points and more differentiation among individual players' choices.

I would try more legacy games, I think, but I would think twice about Pandemic Legacy Season 2.
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Clive Jones

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nyfilmfest wrote:
The legacy system works less well, I think, in a co-op game.

Really?

I've not played Risk Legacy. I've not yet played Pandemic Legacy. But I see a lot of people saying an issue with Risk Legacy is the legacy from one game distorting the relative powers of the factions for all subsequent games.

Now, when it's players against the system, that's fine. When it's players against one another, it feels like more of a problem. Thematic, maybe, but not a fun game any more?
 
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Clive Jones

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dugman wrote:
The answer being that by definition Legacy games are not resettable.

Which definition?

I don't think I've ever seen a formal definition, but I got the vibe that the main characteristics were actions in one game having lasting effects on subsequent games, and gameplay being gradually affected by long-term plot arcs which weren't known to players in advance and spanned many games.

Having already mentioned T.I.M.E Stories, I'll now mention 1000 Blank White Cards, which I also feel interestingly skirts the perimeter of what constitutes a legacy game. The game itself is spoiler-free, but the players can set up nasty surprises for one another, which can then linger indefinitely from one game to another.

Is it resettable? I'd say yes. Sure, if you want to start over you need some more blank white cards, but nobody says Yahtzee is a legacy game just because you need to buy new scorepads once in a while!
 
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Jeremy Heilman
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clivej wrote:
nyfilmfest wrote:
The legacy system works less well, I think, in a co-op game.

Really?

I've not played Risk Legacy. I've not yet played Pandemic Legacy. But I see a lot of people saying an issue with Risk Legacy is the legacy from one game distorting the relative powers of the factions for all subsequent games.


I don't know why that would be an issue. You don't stick to one faction throughout Risk Legacy, so it's completely okay if they're a bit imbalanced. The differentiation serves as something of a catch-up mechanism too, to keep the same person from always winning. Pandemic Legacy attempts similar difficulty adjustment mechanisms (e.g. funding level), but I think they actually work less well and feel less dynamic.

I'd say PL squanders some obvious opportunities for Legacy twists... giving individual players choices (as opposed to the group), introducing light bits of information that only one player had, and generally offering more moments to make choices with consequences would all be desirable to me. Hopefully Season 2 pushes more in this direction.
 
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