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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Dark Charm vs Tomble's Heroic Ability rss

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Greg Vonada
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This seems like something that would have been covered already, but I can't find it anywhere...

I used Dark Charm to mind-control one of the other heroes, and did a melee attack on Tomble with him. Tomble wanted to use his heroic ability to use the defense dice of the hero that was attacking him. Thematically, this didn't make sense, and I argued that the hero was now temporarily a monster. Should he be able to use a Charmed hero's defense dice?

Thanks,


Greg
 
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Vende Vendetta
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I think is a monster too because you can trigger other Overlord Cards like Critical Blow on him.
 
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Paul
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During the action(only), the charmed hero is treated as a monster. If he attacks ANOTHER HERO, you could play critical blow or any OL cards that trigger "when a monster attacks a hero". However, if he attacks HIMSELF, you could not play any of those cards, since your target is a monster, not a hero.

Likewise, if you do a move action, you can't trap him with cards "when a hero enters an empty space."

As far as Tomble goes, if you DC a hero adjacent to Tomble and attack Tomble, Tomble cannot count the DC hero as adding to his defense pool. HOWEVER, had you DC'd Tomble and forced him to attack himself, he COULD add the dice from the adjacent (not DC'd) hero, as hero abilities have been shown to be still active, as with Leoric.
 
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Ben Pletcher
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I could be wrong here but I think there was a similar case where leoric of the book could still use his base ability of -1 heart when charmed. I would say the attacking hero is both a hero and a monsters. I think Tomble should get the extra dice.


Might want to get an official ruling.
 
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Paul
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bpletcher wrote:
...I think there was a similar case where leoric of the book could still use his base ability of -1 heart when charmed. I would say the attacking hero is both a hero and a monsters. I think Tomble should get the extra dice...


Leoric did have a rules response that said his heroic ability was still active. His hero ability says, "Each monster within 3 spaces of you receives -1 on all attack rolls...". Leoric's ability requires 2 things to trigger:
1) A monster is performing an attack
2) Leoric is within 3 spaces of that monster

Leoric's ability does not in any way rely on Leoric being a hero, or the target of the attack being a hero. The ruling merely states that Leoric's ability doesn't "turn off" just because he's being treated as a monster.

Tomble's ability, on the other hand, requires 2 different things:
1) Tomble is the target of the attack
2) Tomble is adjacent to a hero

Let's lay out a few scenarios.

a) Tomble is dark-charmed and attacks an adjacent hero
b) Tomble is dark-charmed and attacks himself while adjacent to another hero.
c) Tomble is dark-charmed and attacks himself while NOT adjacent to another hero.
d) A hero adjacent to Tomble is dark-charmed and attacks Tomble, with no other adjacent heroes.

In a) requirement 1 is not met, so the ability does not trigger.
In b) both requirements are met. The ability triggers.
In c) requirement 2 is not met, so the ability does not trigger.
In d) requirement 2 is not met, so the ability does not trigger.
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