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Fury of Dracula (Third/Fourth Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Heavenly Host - Remove at dawn or dusk? rss

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Drew
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Perhaps another one for the errata sheet as I haven't seen this one mentioned yet (or I am an idiot). The LtP booklet says it's removed at dusk. The RRG says it's removed at dawn. Dawn makes more sense to me, but perhaps there's situations where it's dusk?
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United Kingdom
Outside of the Asylum
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Hmmm... good spot, worth reporting to FFG. Not sure what makes most sense yet, but as comparison: fog, roadblocks, storm are all removed at the end of dusk, I believe... so that may sway things?

EDIT: fog/roadblock/storm are bad for hunters, so initial feeling is heavenly host would be the opposite, hence dawn. That would also fit golden rule of reference overriding learn to play (not sure they meant it to cover straight-up errors though!)
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Keith Kosek
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Plymouth
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The effect they are trying to achieve is to have Heavenly Host tokens impact Dracula during his phase but then drop off.

If you go by the rule as it is written in the Learn to Play guide, placing an HH token during the day phase would only remove it during the next dusk, and it wouldn't affect Dracula at all as this would happen before his turn. If you place the token during the night phase, it would be in play during Dracula's next turn and drop off at the next dusk.

If you go by the rule as it is in the Rules Reference, whether the HH token is placed during the day or night, it would remain in play during Dracula's turn and drop off at the next dawn.

I would go by the rule in the Rules Reference, and this would also be in line with the order of precedence for rules conflicts.

According to the Golden rules Section on page 2 of the Rules Reference, the order of precedence when there are contradictions in the rules is.

1. Text on Cards or components.
2. The Rules Reference
3. The Learn to Play Guide
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H-B-G
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Halesowen
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KeithRK wrote:
The effect they are trying to achieve is to have Heavenly Host tokens impact Dracula during his phase but then drop off.

If you go by the rule as it is written in the Learn to Play guide, placing an HH token during the day phase would only remove it during the next dusk, and it wouldn't affect Dracula at all as this would happen before his turn. If you place the token during the night phase, it would be in play during Dracula's next turn and drop off at the next dusk.

If you go by the rule as it is in the Rules Reference, whether the HH token is placed during the day or night, it would remain in play during Dracula's turn and drop off at the next dawn.

I would go by the rule in the Rules Reference, and this would also be in line with the order of precedence for rules conflicts.

According to the Golden rules Section on page 2 of the Rules Reference, the order of precedence when there are contradictions in the rules is.

1. Text on Cards or components.
2. The Rules Reference
3. The Learn to Play Guide
I agree with this, note though that the host will only ever be placed at night because Consecrated Ground can't be played during the day.
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Keith Kosek
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Plymouth
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Yes, I missed that caveat on the card.

So game effect is really the same. Whether you remove the HH token at dawn or the following dusk, it will be in play during Dracula's turn.
 
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Claudio Hornblower
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KeithRK wrote:
According to the Golden rules Section on page 2 of the Rules Reference, the order of precedence when there are contradictions in the rules is.

1. Text on Cards or components.
2. The Rules Reference
3. The Learn to Play Guide
This.
So, neither Heavenly Host item card, nor Consecrated Ground event card tell us anything about when the tokens are removed.

Rules Reference (pag.5, "Consecrated Ground") says: "At the end of the next dawn..." and that's the answer.

Anything down past this point should be ideally aligned with uphill steps, but if it isn't, the answer is: "Heavenly Host tokens are removed at dawn". So:
- they are created by the hunters during hunters Night action phase (per Consecrated Ground effect)
- are in play for that Drac Night action phase
- then are discarded at Dawn
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Mark Turner
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Farnham
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KeithRK wrote:


1. Text on Cards or components.
2. The Rules Reference
3. The Learn to Play Guide
Except this has already been shown not to apply where there are mistakes in the rules reference guide. For example, on trading.
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Claudio Hornblower
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MrMT wrote:
Except this has already been shown not to apply where there are mistakes in the rules reference guide. For example, on trading.
As far as I know, Trade is correct in the Reference Guide (p.13): it's wrong in the Quick Reference, but FFG has officially answered it already:
"There is a typo in the Quick Reference. With the trade action, hunters can trade item cards and ticket tokens and cannot trade event cards."
 
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Mark Turner
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Mythologem wrote:
MrMT wrote:
Except this has already been shown not to apply where there are mistakes in the rules reference guide. For example, on trading.
As far as I know, Trade is correct in the Reference Guide (p.13): it's wrong in the Quick Reference, but FFG has officially answered it already:
"There is a typo in the Quick Reference. With the trade action, hunters can trade item cards and ticket tokens and cannot trade event cards."
True - it was the quick reference I was referring to,
 
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Joel Stair
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At the end of the next dawn after a heavenly host token is played, discard all heavenly host tokens. Consecrated ground tokens remain on the board until discarded by a card effect.
 
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Randall Monk
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Still not resolved.
 
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Randall Monk
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Official answer from Frank Brooks of FFG:
The rules reference is correct—heavenly host tokens are removed at dawn.
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