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Subject: Questions from last night's game. rss

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Billy Babel
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Ok there was a little bit of grumbling from my game group about Dracula being too powerful in our game last night, so I promised I'd check into these different things to be sure that we did them right.

So one of the big things is that I used wolf form to more somewhere, and from what I understand I put wolf form and a location card on my current space. During that turn Van Hellsing happened upon me, we fought for 3 rounds and then I escaped as a bat, which instructs me to clear my current hideout and replace it with a new location card 2 spaces away. Now here is where eyebrows were raised. Does clearing a location allow me to get wolf form back essentially allowing me to move 4 times by the time my turn has ended, or is the location card and the event card removed and wolf form just stays there by itself until it slides off the end?

The other question was it says that sea locations cannot be revealed while they are on a hideout. Does this mean that you will never be able to tell what sea zone dracula has taken until it has slid off the sixth space? Because it's a hideout while it's on the track isn't it?

And final question, if dracula has already used his double back card, and the hunters use that card whose name I can't remember to put a concecrated ground on dracula and several of those holy things around dracula in such a way that he can't move, what happens?
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Mark L
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BillyBabel wrote:
Ok there was a little bit of grumbling from my game group about Dracula being too powerful in our game last night, so I promised I'd check into these different things to be sure that we did them right.

So one of the big things is that I used wolf form to more somewhere, and from what I understand I put wolf form and a location card on my current space. During that turn Van Hellsing happened upon me, we fought for 3 rounds and then I escaped as a bat, which instructs me to clear my current hideout and replace it with a new location card 2 spaces away. Now here is where eyebrows were raised. Does clearing a location allow me to get wolf form back essentially allowing me to move 4 times by the time my turn has ended, or is the location card and the event card removed and wolf form just stays there by itself until it slides off the end?
Interesting. On the one hand, it seems logical that clearing a hideout would remove Wolf Form as well. But I can't see anywhere in the rules that it actually says so. It talks about removing encounters and rumor tokens and the location card, but never mentions power cards.

Since that combination would be ridiculously powerful, I'm inclined to say Wolf Form (or any other power except Hide, because it works like a location card) stays on the trail in this case. But that's just my opinion; the rules really aren't clear.

Quote:
The other question was it says that sea locations cannot be revealed while they are on a hideout. Does this mean that you will never be able to tell what sea zone dracula has taken until it has slid off the sixth space? Because it's a hideout while it's on the track isn't it?
Yes. This was the same in 2nd edition. I think there are event cards that may force Dracula to reveal sea zones in his trail, but otherwise they remain secret.

Quote:
And final question, if dracula has already used his double back card, and the hunters use that card whose name I can't remember to put a consecrated ground on dracula and several of those holy things around dracula in such a way that he can't move, what happens?
This is covered in the "Dracula Errors" section in the Rules Reference (he clears all hideouts, leaving only his current location, and takes 5 damage).
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Álvaro González
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Those are very good questions, indeed.

I am not very sure about the first one. As it is indicated in the rules reference, power cards on the trail would work as location cards. It literally says "like location cards, power cards cannot be used again until they slide off the sixth space of the trail". Then again, if you mature a vampire, you clear various locations that go back to the locations deck, allowing you to play those location cards (always respecting the limitations of adjacency) before they slide off the sixth space of the trail. I would do the same with the wolf form: if it is cleared, then it is back in the hand of Dracula and ready to be played again. It is not free, though: Dracula suffers a wound by playing that card. Bu I admit that it is a powerful combo, if it happens.

For your second question: Sea locations are not revealed. It is enough punishment for Dracula that se suffers wounds just for being in the sea, and he can't set encounters at sea (that would be ridiculous) and you are announcing every hunter that you are not inland anymore. Even more, locations are not revealed when they slide off the sixth space of the trail, unless the maturating of an effect forces Dracula to reveal it to the hunters. Considering that Sea zones cannot have encounters, and that whenever a hunter enters a sea zone that is a hideout Dracula does not reveal the location card (see "Movement, Sea in the Rules Reference", sea location cards are normally never revealed (Exception: Some events may force Dracula to reveal it).

As for the last one, this is the question that arose in a game I played with 2nd edition. The way to solve it is that since the hunters have been so cunning as to corner Dracula in a position where he has no legal moves, he is forced cheat (in this editions the editors are more tactful, and they call it "Dracula commits an error"). Therefore, Dracula selects a new location (thematically and more elegant if it is near the place where he was cornered), he reveals his current location, clears the whole trail and suffers 5 damage. ¡That was a good job from the hunters!
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Álvaro González
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You were quick you beat my answer for 4 minutes
 
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aerofosfo wrote:
You were quick you beat my answer for 4 minutes
Don't feel bad, I'd barely even started typing mine, so didn't bother when your two replies popped.

And you did mention one important extra point about not revealing location cards unless a maturing card tells you to.
 
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Pavel Kourganov
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Oh, It's not only about Escape as Bat. Dracula could use Misdirect card to clear hideout with Wolf Form power card. That would allow Dracula use both powers every three or four rounds.
 
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H-B-G
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Dertarr wrote:
Oh, It's not only about Escape as Bat. Dracula could use Misdirect card to clear hideout with Wolf Form power card. That would allow Dracula use both powers every three or four rounds.

The rules for Misdirect don't allow its use on a Hideout containing a Power card, so that situation couldn't arise.

On the subject of Escape as Bat, I think that the Wolf Form card would stay in position. The rules on clearing Hideouts from the RG say

Quote:
If a hideout is cleared, the location card is returned to the
location deck, any encounter cards are discarded, and, if there
is a rumor token, it is placed in the token pool.
Note that there is no mention of Power card there.

Also note that in the section on Maturing hideouts it states

Quote:
After resolving all matured effects, Dracula clears the hideout.
He returns any damage tokens in that hideout to the token
pool, removes any rumor tokens in that hideout from the game,
and returns any location or power card in the hideout to the
location deck.
This does mention Power cards, so suggesting that there is a different rule for clearing in this situation.
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Claudio Hornblower
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BillyBabel wrote:
So one of the big things is that I used wolf form to more somewhere, and from what I understand I put wolf form and a location card on my current space. During that turn Van Hellsing happened upon me, we fought for 3 rounds and then I escaped as a bat, which instructs me to clear my current hideout and replace it with a new location card 2 spaces away. Now here is where eyebrows were raised. Does clearing a location allow me to get wolf form back essentially allowing me to move 4 times by the time my turn has ended, or is the location card and the event card removed and wolf form just stays there by itself until it slides off the end?
If I get this correctly, from Rules Reference p.11 "Power Cards", "Dracula has 5 power cards that he can place on the trail instead of a location card during his movement step" (emphasis mine).

Using the Bat escape is not a movement step, so:
- yes you clear a location and get Wolf Form back but
- no you cannot re-use it immediately with the Bat form to move 4 spaces away

But, if that combat occured during Dawn, so you escaped 2 spaces away with Bat, then it's Day-Dusk-Night... at Night you shift the trail as usual and in the new 1st place space, you are free to re-use Wolf Form and move another 2 spaces yes.
Why not? You're Drac after all sauron

The same happens for example if a Vampire matures and the Wolf Form is in the 4th-5th-6th space as I understand it: locations are cleared and you get it back, ready to be used in the next Drac movement phase.

Also, you cannot bridge port-to-port movement that way, say Edinburgh-North Sea-Hamburg, because you have to choose 2 cities linked by a road. (But you can link up to 2 cities from a Sea Zone, so North Sea-Hamburg-Berlin is allowed...)
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Billy Babel
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Oh I'm sorry a few more quick questions, are the event, items and dracuala encounter discard piles public knowledge?

And does dracula still receive influence from resolving a bite card even if the person was not mesmerized?
 
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BillyBabel wrote:
Oh I'm sorry a few more quick questions, are the event, items and dracuala encounter discard piles public knowledge?

And does dracula still receive influence from resolving a bite card even if the person was not mesmerized?
Any player (hunter or Drac) can search discard piles (but not look at face-down event cards in the discard pile, unless using the card that allows that - EDIT: card is called "Hoax").

I believe influence is only earned from the Fangs combat card if the hunter is already mesmerised, as per card text.
 
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BillyBabel wrote:
And does dracula still receive influence from resolving a bite card even if the person was not mesmerized?
Actually, looking at the card again, I can see the source of the confusion. Because the sentence about the influence point is in the same paragraph as the "If it is night and the engaged hunter is mesmorized", I still think you would only get the point if that part of the card triggers. Am open to any better evidence though!!!

On a related note, with the "Reckless Vampire" ("each time you resolve Fangs during an ambush, advance the influence track by 1")... I assume that Fangs counts as being resolved & you get the point, even if it is not night or the hunter is not mesmerised?
EDIT: And if the hunter is mesmerised at night, during a Reckless Vampire ambush, then Fangs is played without being cancelled, you would get both influence points?
 
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Billy Babel
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Pudsy wrote:
BillyBabel wrote:
And does dracula still receive influence from resolving a bite card even if the person was not mesmerized?
Actually, looking at the card again, I can see the source of the confusion. Because the sentence about the influence point is in the same paragraph as the "If it is night and the engaged hunter is mesmorized", I still think you would only get the point if that part of the card triggers. Am open to any better evidence though!!!

On a related note, with the "Reckless Vampire" ("each time you resolve Fangs during an ambush, advance the influence track by 1")... I assume that Fangs counts as being resolved & you get the point, even if it is not night or the hunter is not mesmerised?
EDIT: And if the hunter is mesmerised at night, during a Reckless Vampire ambush, then Fangs is played without being cancelled, you would get both influence points?
are you sure? on the fangs cards it has a period before the preceding part about getting influence. I don't think the influence is contingent on them being mesmerized, also in the rules reference it says Dracula gets influence when fangs is resolved, not when fangs is resolved while a hunter is mesmerized.
 
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Yeah, I see what you mean. Both the LtP + RR contain this exact phrase...
Quote:
Resolving the “Fangs” combat card advances the track by one.
So that seems pretty definitive...
...except for the layout of the "Fangs" card itself.

Here's the card text, with this exact layout:-
FANGS (Dracula Combat Card) wrote:
Recover 2 damage, and the engaged
hunter suffers 2 damage.

If it is night and the engaged hunter
is mesmerized, he does not suffer
2 damage, but instead he is bitten and removed from this combat.
Then, advance the influence track by 1.
And here's a picture of all the power cards, including Fangs:-


I can see how this could be read either way, but the way the last line of text is bunched with the "night + mesmerized" clause... that's what makes me think it's related. But I'm not sure we can deduce too much from that, since it would completely contradict the rulebook (not putting too much trust in the so-called Golden Rules!)

If I were laying out this text, I would have put a blank line before the last line of text if I intended the influence to always be scored (or even said, "In either case, advance the influence track by 1"). Or if I intended it to only be scored at night+mesmerized, I might have added a "If it's night & engaged hunter is mesmerized" heading & bullet sub-points for the last 2 sentences.

Might have to be another FFG query.
EDIT: Question submitted.
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Joel Stair
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I have to agree with DavaD on this in the RR page 11 Power Cards

Like location cards, power cards cannot be used again until they slide off the sixth space of the trail. so the Wolf Form would stay at the location and only the encounter and the Hideout would be cleared.
 
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Mark L
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Pudsy wrote:
Yeah, I see what you mean. Both the LtP + RR contain this exact phrase...
Quote:
Resolving the “Fangs” combat card advances the track by one.
So that seems pretty definitive...
...except for the layout of the "Fangs" card itself.

Here's the card text, with this exact layout:-
FANGS (Dracula Combat Card) wrote:
Recover 2 damage, and the engaged
hunter suffers 2 damage.

If it is night and the engaged hunter
is mesmerized, he does not suffer
2 damage, but instead he is bitten and removed from this combat.
Then, advance the influence track by 1.
And here's a picture of all the power cards, including Fangs:-


I can see how this could be read either way, but the way the last line of text is bunched with the "night + mesmerized" clause... that's what makes me think it's related. But I'm not sure we can deduce too much from that, since it would completely contradict the rulebook (not putting too much trust in the so-called Golden Rules!)

If I were laying out this text, I would have put a blank line before the last line of text if I intended the influence to always be scored (or even said, "In either case, advance the influence track by 1"). Or if I intended it to only be scored at night+mesmerized, I might have added a "If it's night & engaged hunter is mesmerized" heading & bullet sub-points for the last 2 sentences.

Might have to be another FFG query.
EDIT: Question submitted.
Good spot! Yes, I think that from reading the card it looks like you only gain the influence if it's night and the hunter is mesmerized. But given what both the Learn to Play and the Rules Reference say, it's entirely possible that they meant to put in an empty line before the last sentence, to separate it from the stuff about being bitten.

I'm keen to see what FFG have to say on this, but so far they seem to have stuck to the principle of "follow the card, then the RR, then the LTP". Still, in this case it seems like it could be a very simple typo.
 
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Jacob Mercer
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This is coming from the Rules Reference, but it would appear that any cause to clear a hideout would result in wiping the Power card. The Power card, according to this clarification, is treated as a hideout.

Rules Reference - Hideout wrote:
When Dracula places a location card or a power card on an
empty space of the trail, he has created a hideout.
 
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Billy Babel
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xipuloxx wrote:
Pudsy wrote:
Yeah, I see what you mean. Both the LtP + RR contain this exact phrase...
Quote:
Resolving the “Fangs” combat card advances the track by one.
So that seems pretty definitive...
...except for the layout of the "Fangs" card itself.

Here's the card text, with this exact layout:-
FANGS (Dracula Combat Card) wrote:
Recover 2 damage, and the engaged
hunter suffers 2 damage.

If it is night and the engaged hunter
is mesmerized, he does not suffer
2 damage, but instead he is bitten and removed from this combat.
Then, advance the influence track by 1.
And here's a picture of all the power cards, including Fangs:-


I can see how this could be read either way, but the way the last line of text is bunched with the "night + mesmerized" clause... that's what makes me think it's related. But I'm not sure we can deduce too much from that, since it would completely contradict the rulebook (not putting too much trust in the so-called Golden Rules!)

If I were laying out this text, I would have put a blank line before the last line of text if I intended the influence to always be scored (or even said, "In either case, advance the influence track by 1"). Or if I intended it to only be scored at night+mesmerized, I might have added a "If it's night & engaged hunter is mesmerized" heading & bullet sub-points for the last 2 sentences.

Might have to be another FFG query.
EDIT: Question submitted.
Good spot! Yes, I think that from reading the card it looks like you only gain the influence if it's night and the hunter is mesmerized. But given what both the Learn to Play and the Rules Reference say, it's entirely possible that they meant to put in an empty line before the last sentence, to separate it from the stuff about being bitten.

I'm keen to see what FFG have to say on this, but so far they seem to have stuck to the principle of "follow the card, then the RR, then the LTP". Still, in this case it seems like it could be a very simple typo.
Please do keep me informed on what you discover, I've sent in the question about power cards on the trail, but have yet to hear a response.
 
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BillyBabel wrote:
Please do keep me informed on what you discover, I've sent in the question about power cards on the trail, but have yet to hear a response.
No problems, will do.

I'm trying to post back to each specific thread as I hear back on things, and also make a brief reference in this FAQ & Errata thread whenever anyone gets official confirmation on something, so we have all the important clarifications in one place, at least until FFG post an official Errata/FAQs PDF.

I'm starting to wish I'd kept a better record of all the questions I've submitted - have lost count. They must hate me by now! devil
 
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Mark Turner
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Pudsy wrote:
BillyBabel wrote:
Please do keep me informed on what you discover, I've sent in the question about power cards on the trail, but have yet to hear a response.
No problems, will do.

I'm trying to post back to each specific thread as I hear back on things, and also make a brief reference in this FAQ & Errata thread whenever anyone gets official confirmation on something, so we have all the important clarifications in one place, at least until FFG post an official Errata/FAQs PDF.

I'm starting to wish I'd kept a better record of all the questions I've submitted - have lost count. They must hate me by now! :devil:
I think it's high time they produced a first faq.

There are quite a few unanswered questions now.
 
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Christopher Terrell
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You get 1 influence when you resolve a Fangs card with or without mesmerize
The difference,for Mesmerize it gives a hunter a bite token and ends combat instead of damage. Then move the influence.
My opinion.
 
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Yeah, I do suspect that's how this one will be answered (always score 1 influence for Fangs, regardless of night/mesmerise).

And if it is, it'll be the first time the cards have been... maybe not quite 'wrong', but certainly misleading with the formatting/layout.

We shall see...
 
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Can Bud
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So, still no reply on this one? The reckless vampire is taunting me!!
 
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Billy Babel
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FFG is most likely swamped with questions, I asked my question on thursday and have yet to hear anything.
 
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No reply yet. I've got a few questions pending from last weekend, and maybe one or two from before then.

We collectively had a few quick answers during the first few days after release (especially to the easier questions), but I guess they've had so many come in now that they're taking some time to ensure they don't mail out confusing/contradictory answers. Possibly even playtesting possible options... who knows.

Hopefully they're taking the time to put a proper FAQ/Errata together, otherwise more new players will keep stumbling on the same rules questions.

Most of the outstanding queries should only have a small effect on the game though.
 
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Got an answer from FFG regarding the last sentence of the "Fangs" card

Quote:
Rules Question
Hi! Quick question on Fury of Dracula 3rd Edition. Does Dracula always earn 1 influence point when he plays his combat card "Fangs" (assuming it isn't cancelled by a hunter card)? Or is it only if it is night & the engaged hunter is mesmerized? The Learn to Play & Rules Reference both simply say the point is earned when the card is "resolved". And the "Fangs" card itself is unclear, since the last sentence (advance the influence track by 1) is bunched in the same paragraph as the clause about it being night & the hunter being mesmerized. Thanks!

Frank @ FFG wrote:
If it is day (or the engaged hunter is not mesmerized), the hunter only suffers 2 damage. The 1 influence point only occurs when it is night and the engaged hunter is mesmerized.
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