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Subject: A couple of pics from inside the box rss

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Niklas Edin
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I'm sorry for the horrible quality of these pics but I thought some of you might like to see them anyway =)

Oh, mild spoiler for the first quest (I'm not showing backside of card, I'm not that spoiler keen) and one enemy. Also the delve quest, which is something you can embark on after finishing the campaign. I believe it is some kind of random dungeon-type thing.

Tokens, dice and cards arranged after type:



Component list from Learn to Play book.

[img=http://s16.postimg.org/ci0gb69lh/IMG_20151107_125532.jpg]

Braaaaaains!

[img=http://s10.postimg.org/3uq6rqb3d/IMG_20151107_125353.jpg]

First quest

[img=http://s30.postimg.org/4nmcnyhz5/IMG_20151107_125435.jpg]

Delve quest

[img=http://s29.postimg.org/8176a3sk7/IMG_20151107_125447.jpg]

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Nushura
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Wow, thanks a lot!

So it looks like 150 standard size cards and 95 mini cards? The amount seems small for replayability...but let's see.

thanks again for the info. Hopefully we can have a report session from you soon?
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Simon Taylor
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Nushura wrote:
Wow, thanks a lot!

So it looks like 150 standard size cards and 95 mini cards? The amount seems small for replayability...but let's see.

thanks again for the info. Hopefully we can have a report session from you soon?


At Gencon they said that the quests were quite tousgh, and it's highly likelyy you'll not manage them on the first few playthroughs...

Still, it's FFG, of course the expansions will come. And for $30 for the starter set, i'm in for this.
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PC ichigo
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Nice! I'm so envy cry

I guess that mean 2-3 weeks more for the rest of us.
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Nushura
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simondtaylor wrote:

At Gencon they said that the quests were quite tousgh, and it's highly likelyy you'll not manage them on the first few playthroughs...

Still, it's FFG, of course the expansions will come. And for $30 for the starter set, i'm in for this.


Well, I just meant that there are only 50 enemy and 26 location cards. It is quite likely that after one single campaign you will know all cards....and thus the game feels repetitive without new stuff to explore.

I agree it is clearly a bit early to say. Maybe only 10 cards or so are used in an adventure...but it sounds a bit strange
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Big Tom Casual
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These pictures are wonderful! Thank you!

A point of curiosity -- this game is still a bit on the fence for us because my wife doesn't do well with themes that are too gratuitously gross or bloody or eeew. Could you perhaps share images of what you consider to be the darkest or icky-est of the art in the game to give me some type of idea of what we'd be encountering from a theme perspective?
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Niklas Edin
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CasualToast wrote:
These pictures are wonderful! Thank you!

A point of curiosity -- this game is still a bit on the fence for us because my wife doesn't do well with themes that are too gratuitously gross or bloody or eeew. Could you perhaps share images of what you consider to be the darkest or icky-est of the art in the game to give me some type of idea of what we'd be encountering from a theme perspective?


Glad to help. I went through the enemy cards just now and honestly, the ghoul I posted a picture of above is the most icky piece of art in my opinion. I mean, the clan-rats are not good looking fellows in any way but they are just humanoid rats with bad theeth so I'm not sure they qualify.

Some parts of the flavor text might be a bit dark, flavor text from the first quest tells of children and elderly getting sick (and dying I suppose) from poisoned water. But really, it's not that bad. You should definetly not pass this game up. It's awesome.
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Big Tom Casual
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Monkey007 wrote:

Glad to help. I went through the enemy cards just now and honestly, the ghoul I posted a picture of above is the most icky piece of art in my opinion. I mean, the clan-rats are not good looking fellows in any way but they are just humanoid rats with bad theeth so I'm not sure they qualify.

Some parts of the flavor text might be a bit dark, flavor text from the first quest tells of children and elderly getting sick (and dying I suppose) from poisoned water. But really, it's not that bad. You should definetly not pass this game up. It's awesome.


That is exactly what I wanted to hear! Thank you!

I was just picturing random Nurglings or whatever eating endtrails and....yeah. I am greatly encouraged and relieved as this is a game I'm really excited about.

Thank you!!
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Yuriy Matuhno
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Man, no random nurglings eating their entrails? Cancelled my pre-order...
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Monkey007 wrote:

Glad to help. I went through the enemy cards just now and honestly, the ghoul I posted a picture of above is the most icky piece of art in my opinion. I mean, the clan-rats are not good looking fellows in any way but they are just humanoid rats with bad theeth so I'm not sure they qualify.

Some parts of the flavor text might be a bit dark, flavor text from the first quest tells of children and elderly getting sick (and dying I suppose) from poisoned water. But really, it's not that bad. You should definetly not pass this game up. It's awesome.


My daughter and I play a bunch of games, and I was considering this. On the topic of the art, can I ask about how women are portrayed here?

I'm particularly drawn to games where there's a good balance of male/female characters, and it's also super nice when the female characters resemble regular people (fighters, not sex objects).

Have you made any observations on this front?

Thank you for your thoughts and for sharing photos!
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Yuriy Matuhno
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I believe both female characters have been already spoiled in the very FFG articles:







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Nushura
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HauntingQuestions wrote:

I'm particularly drawn to games where there's a good balance of male/female characters, and it's also super nice when the female characters resemble regular people (fighters, not sex objects).


I don't think there is a single FFG game in which women are portrayed as sex objects. There is quite some blood and gore in their games, but IMHO they always handle perfectly the topics of gender, race, sex orientation, religion, etc.
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Niklas Edin
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HauntingQuestions wrote:
Monkey007 wrote:

Glad to help. I went through the enemy cards just now and honestly, the ghoul I posted a picture of above is the most icky piece of art in my opinion. I mean, the clan-rats are not good looking fellows in any way but they are just humanoid rats with bad theeth so I'm not sure they qualify.

Some parts of the flavor text might be a bit dark, flavor text from the first quest tells of children and elderly getting sick (and dying I suppose) from poisoned water. But really, it's not that bad. You should definetly not pass this game up. It's awesome.


My daughter and I play a bunch of games, and I was considering this. On the topic of the art, can I ask about how women are portrayed here?

I'm particularly drawn to games where there's a good balance of male/female characters, and it's also super nice when the female characters resemble regular people (fighters, not sex objects).

Have you made any observations on this front?

Thank you for your thoughts and for sharing photos!


I pay attention to the same things you mention so I was happy to see that two of four characters are women. As far as how they are portrayed I have to echo what the two posters above me have written. The art depicts the Waywatcher and the Bright Wizard as bad ass fighters doing bad ass stuff. There is no overt sexyness going on and the game rules and components never mention gender in any way as far as I've noted.

The coop in this game is so, so good. I highly recommend you buy it for you and your daughter. I honestly can't wait until my girls are old enough to play games like this one. Though, on the other hand, I never want them to grow up
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Anyone else wish FFG didn't put so many small cards in their games? It's really burning me on them. I know it's good for table space but with how expensive board games are (here in the UK at least) I really want nice looking cards with decent sized artwork on them. I would expect the cards in a card game like this one to be mostly, if not entirely, standard size.
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Leon
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Full sized is the best!
 
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Monkey007 wrote:

I pay attention to the same things you mention so I was happy to see that two of four characters are women. As far as how they are portrayed I have to echo what the two posters above me have written. The art depicts the Waywatcher and the Bright Wizard as bad ass fighters doing bad ass stuff. There is no overt sexyness going on and the game rules and components never mention gender in any way as far as I've noted.

The coop in this game is so, so good. I highly recommend you buy it for you and your daughter. I honestly can't wait until my girls are old enough to play games like this one. Though, on the other hand, I never want them to grow up


Thank you so much everybody for your thoughtful replies! I'll definitely put this on the holiday list, then!

I figured this was totally cool -- we play WH Invasion a bit... and that's mostly fine on this subject, I think -- aside from a few Dark Elf cards, maybe... hehe. And DiskWars is amazing! It's good to get verification, on this, though, as I really want to like this game and play it a lot.
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Big Tom Casual
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As the father of a daughter I too consider how women are drawn in these games and I wish the industry was better overall in its handling of female characters.

It's more than whether they are 'sexualized' or specific references to gender or sexuality. With little girls sometimes the more important issue is just simple body image self perception stuff. Sure these two badass fighter gals aren't being held up as sex objects, and sure they are going to be in good shape (because they are so badass and physical and whatever) but rarely are these characters drawn without massive breasts and more often than not they are wearing revealing clothing. Yeah it's not 'sexual' per se, but it is does unecessary things in the minds of kids.

I don't have any specific issue with this game. It's fine. Fine I guess in that it's no worse than a thousand other games. I just think that when we're talking about the presentation of women in games there's a lot of improvement that needs to happen in this industry as it becomes less of a niche community. Similar to how a lot of comic book art has changed for the better on this front the past 5 years or so, I think games are up for a similar evolution.
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Yeah, I'd really like to agree with what Tommy just said. It's not that women on this pictures are presented as sexual objects. They're however attractive (didn't want to pull up word 'sexy' which I'm not a big fan of), in a way that is unfortunately common these days.

For kids, and I'm talking as a father of a small boy myself, I don't really think it would make any difference. Their imagination lets them immerse in the world of game, take part in adventures, and pictures are a big help with that. Not sure if pictures of ugly (sorry for strong word) people would be any better for this.

Wouldn't also like to drag the discussion outside the game, but have you really seen so many unattractive actors/tv journalists or even singers lateley. Sex sells, that is all, even if we don't agree with that

Game however, even if it's not the Old World version of LOTR LCG will still fill its niche as a quick & easy solo dungeon crawler.
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Nushura
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Let me return to the topic and ask some questions to the OP:

How does the theme feel like? do you feel it is a dungeon crawler? or a dice fest? are choices significant? Does the game have the Alpha leader problem of cooperative games?

What about monsters? do they feel different? I am afraid that only 2 actions is a bit small in terms of design space...or are my fears unfounded?

From what I saw in the characters, they feel different...but are their roles fixed? or did you find yourself alternating often in your actions?

What about replayability? do missions feel different? What about cards? how many roughly do you see of each type in one delve? have you felt that after a few plays you keep on seeing the same cards over and over?

Etc etc!! Please give us your impressions!!
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CasualToast wrote:
As the father of a daughter I too consider how women are drawn in these games and I wish the industry was better overall in its handling of female characters.

It's more than whether they are 'sexualized' or specific references to gender or sexuality. With little girls sometimes the more important issue is just simple body image self perception stuff. Sure these two badass fighter gals aren't being held up as sex objects, and sure they are going to be in good shape (because they are so badass and physical and whatever) but rarely are these characters drawn without massive breasts and more often than not they are wearing revealing clothing. Yeah it's not 'sexual' per se, but it is does unecessary things in the minds of kids.

I don't have any specific issue with this game. It's fine. Fine I guess in that it's no worse than a thousand other games. I just think that when we're talking about the presentation of women in games there's a lot of improvement that needs to happen in this industry as it becomes less of a niche community. Similar to how a lot of comic book art has changed for the better on this front the past 5 years or so, I think games are up for a similar evolution.


Actually, Adam and I are both fathers of young daughters, so we were happy to see the balance of male/female heroes. FFG has a great art department, and they strive to be inclusive in this manner, which I fully support.
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Big Tom Casual
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strayknife wrote:
CasualToast wrote:
As the father of a daughter I too consider how women are drawn in these games and I wish the industry was better overall in its handling of female characters.

It's more than whether they are 'sexualized' or specific references to gender or sexuality. With little girls sometimes the more important issue is just simple body image self perception stuff. Sure these two badass fighter gals aren't being held up as sex objects, and sure they are going to be in good shape (because they are so badass and physical and whatever) but rarely are these characters drawn without massive breasts and more often than not they are wearing revealing clothing. Yeah it's not 'sexual' per se, but it is does unecessary things in the minds of kids.

I don't have any specific issue with this game. It's fine. Fine I guess in that it's no worse than a thousand other games. I just think that when we're talking about the presentation of women in games there's a lot of improvement that needs to happen in this industry as it becomes less of a niche community. Similar to how a lot of comic book art has changed for the better on this front the past 5 years or so, I think games are up for a similar evolution.


Actually, Adam and I are both fathers of young daughters, so we were happy to see the balance of male/female heroes. FFG has a great art department, and they strive to be inclusive in this manner, which I fully support.


Oh yes absolutely. Please understand that I am very enthusiastic and excited that this game features two female heroes. That in and of itself is fantastic. I'm seeing that more often too which is very exciting (see: anything by Plaid Hat).

The subject of women being 'sexualized' came up and I just felt I had to get my opinion in there in broad terms about the industry. This thread probably wasn't the best place to suddenly get into it though. This game certainly deserves praise for it's efforts to feature female characters.

Very very excited about this game and (back to topic) very anxious for people to start giving us their damn impressions of it!!! :-) I can only surmise that people are silent because the game is so much fun they can't tear away from it.
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CasualToast wrote:
As the father of a daughter I too consider how women are drawn in these games and I wish the industry was better overall in its handling of female characters.

It's more than whether they are 'sexualized' or specific references to gender or sexuality. With little girls sometimes the more important issue is just simple body image self perception stuff. Sure these two badass fighter gals aren't being held up as sex objects, and sure they are going to be in good shape (because they are so badass and physical and whatever) but rarely are these characters drawn without massive breasts and more often than not they are wearing revealing clothing. Yeah it's not 'sexual' per se, but it is does unecessary things in the minds of kids.

I don't have any specific issue with this game. It's fine. Fine I guess in that it's no worse than a thousand other games. I just think that when we're talking about the presentation of women in games there's a lot of improvement that needs to happen in this industry as it becomes less of a niche community. Similar to how a lot of comic book art has changed for the better on this front the past 5 years or so, I think games are up for a similar evolution.


This essentially hits the nail on the head.

I was so excited to get Epic in the mail. The teaser images depicted some women/angels in full body armor. Sure, their hair was gleaming and they were probably dress size 0 somewhere in there beneath the armor, but at least they didn't have unnecessary amounts of skin on display (looking at you War Dancer). Then I got it, and... well, there are threads devoted to debating how reasonable/unreasonable the amount of cleavage in the game is.

You're right, Tommy. Aside from a game like Star Realms, there's little out there that promotes both genders equally. (Have you seen CEO Torres? Though big-breasted and wide hipped [ugh...], she is fully clothed, she doesn't have a model face, and she's a CEO...)

It is getting better, but there's a long way to go, just as Tommy says. In the meantime, I try to shift things up a little bit. For example, when there's a soldier in full armor, I will refer to "it" as a "her" sometimes: "How come you moved her there?" My daughter will then ask, "How do you know that one's a girl?" And then of course you have to ask back, "What would make you question that it wouldn't be?"

It doesn't seem that the answer is to back off and wait until the industry has "solved" its racism/sexism. I think it's a matter of starting conversations and keeping a critically active mind...
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Ryan Hester
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Nushura wrote:
Does the game have the Alpha leader problem of cooperative games?


I am also curious about this.
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Yuriy Matuhno
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lawnwrangler83 wrote:
Nushura wrote:
Does the game have the Alpha leader problem of cooperative games?


I am also curious about this.
I don't think its a game's problem, but people's.
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TrueLolzor wrote:
lawnwrangler83 wrote:
Nushura wrote:
Does the game have the Alpha leader problem of cooperative games?


I am also curious about this.
I don't think its a game's problem, but people's.


Well said
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