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Subject: PnP components question rss

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Glenn Martin
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So I did a trade for a PnP version of 1817 and It had a couple of items that the rules didn't describe.
First of all it had extra private companies that were probably dropped after playtesting. I'll just play with the privates mentioned in the latest set of rules.
Then there are these little strips saying "5 Shorts" and "10 Shorts" that from the photos on the 'Geek are apparently put on the company charters I guess so you know what's been shorted or not.
Then there are two boards with faint share images on them. Again from the photoes, these appear to be for placing the shares on one and the station tokens on another. These aren't strictly neccessary are they? You could just arrange the piles of shares on the table with the tokens next to them.
Lastly, how do you record who's responsible for pying the dividends for shorted shares? (Who's the 'shorter'?) Simple pen and paper would work but I was wondering if their was another way.

P.S. Are there any major differences between the PnP version and the published version? The map, say.
 
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Bruce Murphy
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Not exactly PnP. That was a playtest version for people to contribute to development, not a PnP free-for-all.

B>
 
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Tucker Taylor
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fluffyevil wrote:
Lastly, how do you record who's responsible for pying the dividends for shorted shares? (Who's the 'shorter'?) Simple pen and paper would work but I was wondering if their was another way.
Per the rules, the bank pays all dividends; shorts don't have an associated long. (Sounds like they did at one point but that adds a lot of overhead and basically no gameplay benefit.)
 
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J C Lawrence
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fluffyevil wrote:
Then there are these little strips saying "5 Shorts" and "10 Shorts" that from the photos on the 'Geek are apparently put on the company charters I guess so you know what's been shorted or not.
More likely whether the game is being played with 5 or 10 shorts.

Quote:
Then there are two boards with faint share images on them.[q]

The market and the pool.

[q]These aren't strictly neccessary are they? You could just arrange the piles of shares on the table with the tokens next to them.
Yes, they are necessary, especially for the management of shorts.

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Lastly, how do you record who's responsible for pying the dividends for shorted shares?
In the published game there are "short shares" that players acquire. Various versions of the playtest games did different things.

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P.S. Are there any major differences between the PnP version and the published version? The map, say.
Yes, several map differences, and depending on age, large rule and component differences. Significant game changes occurred all the way through the play-testing period.
 
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J C Lawrence
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JazzFish wrote:
Per the rules, the bank pays all dividends; shorts don't have an associated long. (Sounds like they did at one point but that adds a lot of overhead and basically no gameplay benefit.)
Nope. In the published game shorts have an associated long and this fact adds significant gameplay value, not least because short holders are personally liable for the dividends of their shorts, and due to shorts, there may be up to 200% of the company held by players (as shares).
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Tucker Taylor
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clearclaw wrote:
JazzFish wrote:
Per the rules, the bank pays all dividends; shorts don't have an associated long. (Sounds like they did at one point but that adds a lot of overhead and basically no gameplay benefit.)
Nope. In the published game shorts have an associated long and this fact adds significant gameplay value, not least because short holders are personally liable for the dividends of their shorts, and due to shorts, there may be up to 200% of the company held by players (as shares).
Eh? Oh, apologies, I was unclear. Each short sold generates another long, and there's no difference between a long that exists as part of the IPO and a long that's created by a short sale. Short holders pay the bank, not the holder of the long created by the short. (Only potentially relevant if the short holder can't make the payment.)
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Eric Brosius
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fluffyevil wrote:
Then there are these little strips saying "5 Shorts" and "10 Shorts" that from the photos on the 'Geek are apparently put on the company charters I guess so you know what's been shorted or not.
Glenn, I participated in the playtesting process, and I made my own copy of the game (I'll add, incidentally, that it probably cost me almost as much as the retail price of the finished game.)

My copy, which was built from the files, has little strips that say "5 Share" and "10 Share". These are designed to indicate whether a company is a 2 Share company (in which case there is no strip) or a 5 or 10 share company.

I wonder, without meaning to doubt what you are saying, whether when you say "5 Shorts" and "10 Shorts", you might be misreading what it says.
 
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Glenn Martin
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Eric Brosius wrote:
fluffyevil wrote:
Then there are these little strips saying "5 Shorts" and "10 Shorts" that from the photos on the 'Geek are apparently put on the company charters I guess so you know what's been shorted or not.
Glenn, I participated in the playtesting process, and I made my own copy of the game (I'll add, incidentally, that it probably cost me almost as much as the retail price of the finished game.)

My copy, which was built from the files, has little strips that say "5 Share" and "10 Share". These are designed to indicate whether a company is a 2 Share company (in which case there is no strip) or a 5 or 10 share company.

I wonder, without meaning to doubt what you are saying, whether when you say "5 Shorts" and "10 Shorts", you might be misreading what it says.
Quite right. They say "share" instead of "short". Thanks. You've cleared up their use for me.
And I've clarified how short selling actually works. Take one regular share and one short share. Sell the regular share to the pool and keep the short share with you. Repeat as desired up to the number of shares that company has (2, 5 or 10). It DOESN'T count toward your certificate limit. When the shorted company pays a dividend, you pay that dividend for each short share to the bank. You can buy a regular share and instantly close a short, discarding both. You can do this even if you're at your cert limit and buying that share would technically put you over
 
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