Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Dropfleet Commander» Forums » General

Subject: To Kick or not to Kick rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
W. Cracker
United States
Olmsted Township
Ohio
flag msg tools
What a cool guy!
badge
Never rub another man's rhubarb.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Admittedly I've already backed this one at the Commodore level, but I still have 27 days to hit the cancel button. Love the new wrinkle on space battle and the ships look amazing. Also Hawk games has a very good reputation. So I'm posting this to get some BGG'er feedback about this one, the good, the bad or the ugly. Just looking for comments to shape my decision to kick or not to kick. Thanks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Groll
Germany
Marburg
Hessen
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I certainly cannot help you with insights, but I am backing it too. I already own (and love) Firestorm Armada and Star Trek Attack Wing and think that Dropfleet will feel different enough to warrant a third space battle game.
I like the different focus on dropping troops instead of deep space deathmatch and I think that this scenario driven system can grow a lot (with orbital stations, defense systems, satellites and so on).

I also watched the Beast of War videos (on the KS page) and the rules system seems to be simple enough and still flexible and elegant.

There is however one concern I have with the game as it is: during that BoW playthrough both fleets ended up in the middle of the table throwing all they had at each other. that was far away from the tactical and movement heavy gameplay that Hawk promises for this game. Maybe it was the small map and the location of those asteroids in the middle of the board. Or maybe it was the fleet composition.

So, maybe the published game will be interesting and result in varied scenarios. or it might be just a huge slugfest in the middle of the board. But even in that case you can still use the (excellent) models for any other space battle game - just replace the bases and write up some house rules for a new faction and you could easily use these models in Firestorm Armada, Starfleet battles, Battlefleet Gothic and so on.

What I am not sure about yet is what level to back. I do like the UCM models but the Scourge leave me a bit cold. The same goes for the Shaltari, but I like the PHR. So, I will have to figure out which level will give me the best deal on these two fleets (with the others (e.g. free stretch goal models) as nice to have ships for special scenarios), but right now I am pretty sure that I will get at least two starter fleets and the rules for the game, probably more.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Palmer
Canada
Ayr
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am a boardgamer who plays just one miniatures game - Dropzone Commander. So perhaps my thoughts will carry some weight for you, Karl, as it sounds like you might be in a similar situation.

Backing this was a no-brainer for me:

1) Andy Chambers is making the rules for the game, and he made the rules for a miniatures game I used to love and play a lot (Dust Warfare) and he also designed Battle Fleet Gothic, the Games Workship space fleet game, so he has a lot of experience to build on.

2) David Lewis is the other rules designer. He designed Dropzone Commander, which is my all-time favourite game. What makes it so great is because of how cinematic it feels, and has a lot of depth of tactics and strategy. It's never a game of meet-in-the-middle-and-roll-lots of dice. I don't think that BoW video is indicative of how the game will look or feel - just a quick way of demonstrating the rules. Dropzone Commander is very scenario-based - killing your opponent's army is never the end goal, and I'm positive Dropfleet will be the same.

3) Hawk Wargames are awesome at supporting their games. Even though they are a super small company, they make sure the products are getting out to stores, and about every 6 months they will do some minor tweaks to ensure balance and ensure that all miniatures are worthwhile, including older ones. You won't find in a few years that there's a power creep and the minis you have are not competitive anymore.

4) They are kickstarting for the real reason kickstarters are supposed to happen - to help a project get off the ground that couldn't happen otherwise. Plastic moulds are really expensive, and this kickstarter will mean a win for consumers and for the company as the game can come out at much more economical prices. The starter sets for Dropzone used to be twice the price they are now because they were in resin, and it took years for Hawk to save up the money to make the starter boxes in plastic.

5) The obvious one here - the models are oh so very pretty. Hawk Wargames makes the most detailed miniatures out there - on par with GW's best stuff.

6) Innovative and different rules. The whole orbital combat with ground combat going on is unique, and so is the signature / scan range rules. I'm sure that will just be the start of what sets this game apart.

So yeah, hope that's helpful! I'm definitely happy I kickstarted - I'm in at the Commodore level too - just wish I had even more money to throw at it.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
W. Cracker
United States
Olmsted Township
Ohio
flag msg tools
What a cool guy!
badge
Never rub another man's rhubarb.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wanjajoral wrote:
I certainly cannot help you with insights, but I am backing it too. I already own (and love) Firestorm Armada and Star Trek Attack Wing and think that Dropfleet will feel different enough to warrant a third space battle game.
I like the different focus on dropping troops instead of deep space deathmatch and I think that this scenario driven system can grow a lot (with orbital stations, defense systems, satellites and so on).

I also watched the Beast of War videos (on the KS page) and the rules system seems to be simple enough and still flexible and elegant.

There is however one concern I have with the game as it is: during that BoW playthrough both fleets ended up in the middle of the table throwing all they had at each other. that was far away from the tactical and movement heavy gameplay that Hawk promises for this game. Maybe it was the small map and the location of those asteroids in the middle of the board. Or maybe it was the fleet composition.

So, maybe the published game will be interesting and result in varied scenarios. or it might be just a huge slugfest in the middle of the board. But even in that case you can still use the (excellent) models for any other space battle game - just replace the bases and write up some house rules for a new faction and you could easily use these models in Firestorm Armada, Starfleet battles, Battlefleet Gothic and so on.

What I am not sure about yet is what level to back. I do like the UCM models but the Scourge leave me a bit cold. The same goes for the Shaltari, but I like the PHR. So, I will have to figure out which level will give me the best deal on these two fleets (with the others (e.g. free stretch goal models) as nice to have ships for special scenarios), but right now I am pretty sure that I will get at least two starter fleets and the rules for the game, probably more.


Thanks Michael. I really appreciate the time you took to elaborate. I'm also slightly a little underwhelmed by the Scourge ships but they are unique looking and will stand out dramatically against the UCM ships. I, like you, enjoy space battle games, but the theme of battling over gaining terrestrial holdings is different enough to open my wallet. So my finger hasn't moved an inch toward the cancel button from your posting. Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
W. Cracker
United States
Olmsted Township
Ohio
flag msg tools
What a cool guy!
badge
Never rub another man's rhubarb.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Felkor wrote:
I am a boardgamer who plays just one miniatures game - Dropzone Commander. So perhaps my thoughts will carry some weight for you, Karl, as it sounds like you might be in a similar situation.

Backing this was a no-brainer for me:

1) Andy Chambers is making the rules for the game, and he made the rules for a miniatures game I used to love and play a lot (Dust Warfare) and he also designed Battle Fleet Gothic, the Games Workship space fleet game, so he has a lot of experience to build on.

2) David Lewis is the other rules designer. He designed Dropzone Commander, which is my all-time favourite game. What makes it so great is because of how cinematic it feels, and has a lot of depth of tactics and strategy. It's never a game of meet-in-the-middle-and-roll-lots of dice. I don't think that BoW video is indicative of how the game will look or feel - just a quick way of demonstrating the rules. Dropzone Commander is very scenario-based - killing your opponent's army is never the end goal, and I'm positive Dropfleet will be the same.

3) Hawk Wargames are awesome at supporting their games. Even though they are a super small company, they make sure the products are getting out to stores, and about every 6 months they will do some minor tweaks to ensure balance and ensure that all miniatures are worthwhile, including older ones. You won't find in a few years that there's a power creep and the minis you have are not competitive anymore.

4) They are kickstarting for the real reason kickstarters are supposed to happen - to help a project get off the ground that couldn't happen otherwise. Plastic moulds are really expensive, and this kickstarter will mean a win for consumers and for the company as the game can come out at much more economical prices. The starter sets for Dropzone used to be twice the price they are now because they were in resin, and it took years for Hawk to save up the money to make the starter boxes in plastic.

5) The obvious one here - the models are oh so very pretty. Hawk Wargames makes the most detailed miniatures out there - on par with GW's best stuff.

6) Innovative and different rules. The whole orbital combat with ground combat going on is unique, and so is the signature / scan range rules. I'm sure that will just be the start of what sets this game apart.

So yeah, hope that's helpful! I'm definitely happy I kickstarted - I'm in at the Commodore level too - just wish I had even more money to throw at it.


Thanks James. You specifically addressed 2 of my key concerns; rules integrity and mini quality. Based on your and Michael's postings, I think it's a done deal for me now. My real only gripe, and it's a small one, is the paper maps. But I do get being cost effective and if the models are as good as you describe, it's an acceptable trade off. Plus I've got plenty of plexi from my war games. Thanks!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin
Japan
Saitama
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wanjajoral wrote:
There is however one concern I have with the game as it is: during that BoW playthrough both fleets ended up in the middle of the table throwing all they had at each other. that was far away from the tactical and movement heavy gameplay that Hawk promises for this game. Maybe it was the small map and the location of those asteroids in the middle of the board. Or maybe it was the fleet composition.


I think the reason for this was mainly to show off how basic conflict resolution, like shooting, is handled in Dropfleet and to have most of the ships fit neatly into the second fixed camera aimed at the centre of the table (I'm sure you noticed how they awkwardly rolled the dice among the ship models, just to show the camera).

I personally think it was a bit of a mistake as the unique part of the game isn't the shooting or how ships take damage, but the stealth/range gameplay, the objectives and orbital layers. Had I made that video I would have focused on these things the most. Alas, it was not to be.

However, I'm confident actually playing the game will not be like that at all.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rocy7 POL
Poland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm worried of starter set replability. How much diffrent fleets can I make with starter? Or I must back at 120£ level to get more than demo?

Felkor wrote:

6) Innovative and different rules. The whole orbital combat with ground combat going on is unique


this is not unique.

Firestorm Armada with Firestorm Planetfall already has space - ground campaing when mission is space affect ground combat and vice versa. Also Halo Fleet Battles will also have this option when Halo Ground will be released in next year.

Felkor wrote:
.

3) Hawk Wargames are awesome at supporting their games.
I not so sure about it. Week ago I ask some questions throught KS to them and still do not get any answer.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Palmer
Canada
Ayr
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rocy7 wrote:
I'm worried of starter set replability. How much diffrent fleets can I make with starter? Or I must back at 120£ level to get more than demo?

Felkor wrote:

6) Innovative and different rules. The whole orbital combat with ground combat going on is unique


this is not unique.

Firestorm Armada with Firestorm Planetfall already has space - ground campaing when mission is space affect ground combat and vice versa. Also Halo Fleet Battles will also have this option when Halo Ground will be released in next year.



I'm not sure it's the same thing. I'm not talking about Dropfleet and Dropzone interacting (although that is cool too.) I'm talking about the fact that there are objectives on the ground and ground combat within Dropfleet Commander itself. Do those other games have that?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Palmer
Canada
Ayr
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rocy7 wrote:
I'm worried of starter set replability. How much diffrent fleets can I make with starter? Or I must back at 120£ level to get more than demo?


If you're ok with magnetizing them, you can change up what your ships are quite a bit. The stretch goals will mean at least 5 extra ships for whatever faction(s) you choose to go with too.

I found the Dropzone Commander starter sets in themselves (even though they don't provide any variability) provide a lot of replayability - I still enjoy using them for a quicker game.

And assuming there is similar scenario variation as in Dropzone Commander, that will give it a lot of replayability. The various scenarios in Dropzone Commander are very different from each other, and require different tactics, so it can give a lot of replay value even if you keep using the same army.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rocy7 POL
Poland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Felkor wrote:
I'm talking about the fact that there are objectives on the ground and ground combat within Dropfleet Commander itself. Do those other games have that?
In Firestorm Planetfall are objectives on the ground and scenario system.

I do not catch part of ground combat within Dropfleet Commander? Could you write more about this aspect? How we can get ground Combat when in starter set are only ships? Or you mean fighting on low orbit above the planet?

In Halo Fleet Battles we will get for example an option to play boarding as ground game, but we will need ground system minis to do it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Palmer
Canada
Ayr
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rocy7 wrote:
Felkor wrote:
I'm talking about the fact that there are objectives on the ground and ground combat within Dropfleet Commander itself. Do those other games have that?
In Firestorm Planetfall are objectives on the ground and scenario system.

I do not catch part of ground combat within Dropfleet Commander? Could you write more about this aspect? How we can get ground Combat when in starter set are only ships? Or you mean fighting on low orbit above the planet?

In Halo Fleet Battles we will get for example an option to play boarding as ground game, but we will need ground system minis to do it.


In the Beasts of War demo, they were using dice to represent the troops - I'm thinking they are counters, but perhaps miniatures will come at some point in time. Combat is pretty abstracted - more like Risk, but it sounds like there are different troop types - some better at taking objectives and some better at being killy with the other side's troops.

They were pretty vague in the video about how it would work, and I think they said more info would come as the KS campaign continued.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Palmer
Canada
Ayr
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
http://www.magabotato.de/podcast/item/interview-2

A great new interview on Dropfleet Commander. At around the 36 minute mark, Dave goes into detail on how ground combat works.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan
United States
Maitland
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My perspective: I like Andy Chambers, and I too like the submarine/landing based gameplay. I like that the KS campaign is limited so as not to push back production timetables. My concern centers more on the question of whether the KS is good value for money. We're basically paying retail, and the rewards are a little less generous than I'm used to for a Kickstarter....but I can see why they are doing that, and it makes sense. I'm at Admiral now, but I may or may not stay there. Since Scourge and the UCM are my two Dropzone Commander factions, it's possible I'll drop down to Captain and hopefully trade away my Shaltari and PHR stuff for more ships of my chosen factions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Miller
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I love the look of the game, but my concern is putting the models together: I've never done that and I'm not sure how difficult construction is and mine will come out.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Groll
Germany
Marburg
Hessen
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Obviously I cannot say much about how difficult those ships will be to put together. But I recently watched a review for the Dropzone Commander starter box (which could be comparable) and there the models came together nicely with each model consisting of not more than 5 or 6 parts. Based on that I guess it will not be too difficult to glue them together. And as the models come in plastic they will be very easy to work with (cut them from the spues, clean them up a bit (remove mold lines if you are so inclined), but some plastic cement (glue) on, put them together, done).

Oh, and the DZC starter come with instructions for how to put the models together. I think we can assuem that the Dropfleet starter will do the same.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Palmer
Canada
Ayr
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, they've said the Dropfleet ships will come with assembly instructions.

Before Dropzone Commander, my only miniatures game I played was Dust Tactics, and those miniatures came preassembled. Dropzone was my first game where I had to assemble and glue all the pieces together. And I did not find it difficult at all. I think it maybe took me 2 evenings to get the whole 2-player starter set put together (and within 2 weeks I had them all painted too - smaller scale models like these are actually quite quick and easy to paint.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Winter Lady
United Kingdom
Nottingham
flag msg tools
My main worry is that it's a very-niche wargame that looks like it'll require a local community; If there's no-one else around the area who plays it, it doesn't look like it's the sort of thing where one player can comfortably bring their copy along for people to play; It's more of an X-Wing/40k affair, and.. I just haven't seen anyone locally playing DZC, so.. As much as I want to love this, I fear it'll just sit on a shelf.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Palmer
Canada
Ayr
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WinterLady wrote:
My main worry is that it's a very-niche wargame that looks like it'll require a local community; If there's no-one else around the area who plays it, it doesn't look like it's the sort of thing where one player can comfortably bring their copy along for people to play; It's more of an X-Wing/40k affair, and.. I just haven't seen anyone locally playing DZC, so.. As much as I want to love this, I fear it'll just sit on a shelf.


I can't really argue with that. Although in my situation, I do not have a local miniature gaming group either. On a whim I bought the Dropzone Commander 2-player Starter Set, and tried it with a friend, and that friend liked it so much he decided he'd be willing to throw in some money here and there to help expand the collection. So I have one regular opponent (around once a month), plus a handful of other friends that are interested in playing the game now and then, so I maybe get to play it about twice a month. That, along with the fun I have with assembly and painting, make it worthwhile for me.

I know a lot of people who play miniature games have a regular weekly meet up at a local store to play. I'd love that, but I'm not sure if I'd really end up playing at the store much anyway.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian M
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Its such a lovely looking game. I keep being tempted to back it, and having to remind myself that I just never have the opportunity to play miniatures games these days.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.