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Subject: Can I deliberately fail Research Encounters? rss

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Jay K
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So, if a research encounter has a pass condition that doesn't allow me to take the clue and I am ok to take the fail condition, am I not better off failing so that the clue remains on the board and trying again with a new research encounter card on my next turn?
 
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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Unless the pass result says to discard the clue, it's going to stay on the board anyway, so no reason to fail it.
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Isobel Andrewartha
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If you don't get the clue it doesn't get discarded from the board, so you can try again always

"If the Clue token being encountered is not gained or discarded, it
remains on its space and can be encountered again." Reference Guide pg. 10
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Jorgen Peddersen
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You have to follow how the dice roll. you can choose not to add bonuses to try to fail the test, but you must roll your dice for your Skill level and cannot ignore successes if you roll them.
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Xelto G
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And you can use clues or focus to reroll successes.
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Xixian wrote:
If you don't get the clue it doesn't get discarded from the board, so you can try again always

"If the Clue token being encountered is not gained or discarded, it
remains on its space and can be encountered again." Reference Guide pg. 10
That's helpful, as I have been making the game far harder than it is meant to be.
 
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Bart Rachemoss
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Clipper wrote:
You have to follow how the dice roll. you can choose not to add bonuses to try to fail the test, but you must roll your dice for your Skill level and cannot ignore successes if you roll them.
You cannot ignore bonuses (unless the text gives you a choice). FFG cleared this up before. For example see this thread: Testing Skills - Purposely Fail? I was wrong and the previous posts I relied on were wrong including this one.

If you have rerolls available then you can reroll the successes.
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Cesar Puga
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I'll place my question here as it has to do with this subject. Hope someone is still subscribed!

My scenario:
I'm playing solo with 2 investigators. Leo is the lead, Jacqueline is next. Playing against Azathoth in the third mystery (the one you have to close a gate that matches the omen and then place a clue in the mistery).

Jacqueline is in the gate but she has no clues. Leo also has no clues. Leo's encounter has a fail condition that gives him an Amnesia condition and Jacqueline gains a clue when another investigator gets a condition (her passive ability). Problem is, Leo is a blessed machine with 4 allies, several improvements and lots of items (thanks to the late Charlie Kane...).

My plan was to purposely fail the encounter so that Jacqueline has a chance to close the gate and complete the mystery. If I got it right, I have no option but to roll the dice and hope for fails... is that correct? I will use Focus to reroll successes obviously. But can I ignore the Vatican Missionary for the will test ?

I only have 2 mythos cards left in the deck, this is my last hope to win...

Thanks in advance!
 
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Jan Probst
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Don't think you can choose to not apply his +1 Will because there's no "may" in there and asset use is apparently not inherently optional.

You can use his reroll and any Focus rerolls as you please though, including rerolling successes, yes.
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Krzysiek Domański
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Mike_Bonn wrote:
But can I ignore the Vatican Missionary for the will test ?
The post right above yours states that you can't ignore bonuses.
 
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Cesar Puga
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haroth9842 wrote:
Mike_Bonn wrote:
But can I ignore the Vatican Missionary for the will test ?
The post right above yours states that you can't ignore bonuses.
So? How do I know which answer is right ? The one from clipper or the one from BitJam ?

Make no mistake, I read both threads and I was still unsure, that's why I asked.

Back to the question, I also asked some experienced brazilian players and their answer was: YES you can ignore the Vatican Missionary. They pointed me to these excerpts:

Reference Guide, under Tests wrote:

He may use one effect that provides a bonus (for example "Gain +3 Will").
If multiple effects provide a bonus, he uses only the highest bonus.
FAQ wrote:

Q. Are effects that say “may,” “or,” and “unless” optional?
A. Yes. Effects using the words “may,” “or,” and “unless”
grant the investigator a choice. If an effect says, “may,” the
investigator chooses to resolve that effect or not.
...
Granted, Allies are not effects, but it seems like they could be treated accordingly.

So, in my opinion, I am allowed to ignore the will bonus and I can still use the reroll ability to reroll a success.

Constructive comments are welcome.
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Danilo Martins
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You cannot deliberately fail, but I do believe (and I was the one who pointed it out the documentation) that you choose not to use a possession to boost the dice number.
 
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Krzysiek Domański
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Mike_Bonn wrote:
I also asked some experienced brazilian players and their answer was: YES you can ignore the Vatican Missionary. They pointed me to these excerpts:

Reference Guide, under Tests wrote:

He may use one effect that provides a bonus (for example "Gain +3 Will").
If multiple effects provide a bonus, he uses only the highest bonus.
FAQ wrote:

Q. Are effects that say “may,” “or,” and “unless” optional?
A. Yes. Effects using the words “may,” “or,” and “unless”
grant the investigator a choice. If an effect says, “may,” the
investigator chooses to resolve that effect or not.
...
Granted, Allies are not effects, but it seems like they could be treated accordingly.
Items and Spells also aren't effects. But the bonuses all these cards provide are effects.

The reference guide clearly confirms what the brazilian players state.
However I seem to remember reading an official ruling that stated the opposite. Unfortunately it's not in the Official clarifications thread yet.
Well, either my memory fails me or that ruling contradicted the guide. I'll ask again(?) once I get home.
 
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Mike_Bonn wrote:
I'll place my question here as it has to do with this subject. Hope someone is still subscribed!

My scenario:
I'm playing solo with 2 investigators. Leo is the lead, Jacqueline is next. Playing against Azathoth in the third mystery (the one you have to close a gate that matches the omen and then place a clue in the mistery).

Jacqueline is in the gate but she has no clues. Leo also has no clues. Leo's encounter has a fail condition that gives him an Amnesia condition and Jacqueline gains a clue when another investigator gets a condition (her passive ability). Problem is, Leo is a blessed machine with 4 allies, several improvements and lots of items (thanks to the late Charlie Kane...).

My plan was to purposely fail the encounter so that Jacqueline has a chance to close the gate and complete the mystery. If I got it right, I have no option but to roll the dice and hope for fails... is that correct? I will use Focus to reroll successes obviously. But can I ignore the Vatican Missionary for the will test ?

I only have 2 mythos cards left in the deck, this is my last hope to win...

Thanks in advance!
Couldn't Leo just resolve a different type of encounter? He'd be sure not to close the gate that way.
 
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Cesar Puga
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fambans wrote:
Mike_Bonn wrote:
I'll place my question here as it has to do with this subject. Hope someone is still subscribed!

My scenario:
I'm playing solo with 2 investigators. Leo is the lead, Jacqueline is next. Playing against Azathoth in the third mystery (the one you have to close a gate that matches the omen and then place a clue in the mistery).

Jacqueline is in the gate but she has no clues. Leo also has no clues. Leo's encounter has a fail condition that gives him an Amnesia condition and Jacqueline gains a clue when another investigator gets a condition (her passive ability). Problem is, Leo is a blessed machine with 4 allies, several improvements and lots of items (thanks to the late Charlie Kane...).

My plan was to purposely fail the encounter so that Jacqueline has a chance to close the gate and complete the mystery. If I got it right, I have no option but to roll the dice and hope for fails... is that correct? I will use Focus to reroll successes obviously. But can I ignore the Vatican Missionary for the will test ?

I only have 2 mythos cards left in the deck, this is my last hope to win...

Thanks in advance!
Couldn't Leo just resolve a different type of encounter? He'd be sure not to close the gate that way.
No, it was actually lucky that he got an encounter that gives him a condition if he fails. That's what will trigger Jacqueline's ability to get a clue (from reading the back of the card). Since Jacqueline plays next she will have a clue when encoutering the gate.
 
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I get it now.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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Meh, it seems to me that it should be okay to fail whatever you want to fail. It's sort of like saying that someone with super strength can't choose to NOT lift a car over his head. Or someone that is super smart can't help but answer all the questions right on a test. Maybe there's some reason that they want to fail the test in order to not let on how smart they really are.

Having a rule that says that you will sometimes pass a check even if you don't want to, is counter-intuitive to me. Oops, I accidentally spent some time and effort doing research and gained a clue!
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randomlife wrote:
Meh, it seems to me that it should be okay to fail whatever you want to fail. It's sort of like saying that someone with super strength can't choose to NOT lift a car over his head. Or someone that is super smart can't help but answer all the questions right on a test. Maybe there's some reason that they want to fail the test in order to not let on how smart they really are.

Having a rule that says that you will sometimes pass a check even if you don't want to, is counter-intuitive to me. Oops, I accidentally spent some time and effort doing research and gained a clue!
Yeah, but when the investigator is having his encounter, he shouldn't really know what the results would be if he passes or fails. I think if you are trying to "role play" as the investigator, you wouldn't want to deliberately fail the encounter, even though you (as the player who has read the whole card) know both results.
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Ricardo Donoso
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kumasawa wrote:
[q="randomlife"]
Yeah, but when the investigator is having his encounter, he shouldn't really know what the results would be if he passes or fails. I think if you are trying to "role play" as the investigator, you wouldn't want to deliberately fail the encounter, even though you (as the player who has read the whole card) know both results.
Where did you got this from?

 
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rdonoso wrote:
kumasawa wrote:

Yeah, but when the investigator is having his encounter, he shouldn't really know what the results would be if he passes or fails. I think if you are trying to "role play" as the investigator, you wouldn't want to deliberately fail the encounter, even though you (as the player who has read the whole card) know both results.
Where did you got this from?

This is actaully suggested (although not required) in the Reference Guide

EH Reference Guide, Hidden Information wrote:
In addition, we recommend a player other than the active investigator reads encounter cards and does not reveal the results of passing or failing a test that has not yet been resolved.
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Ricardo Donoso
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But it's not a rule.

EH can be quite brutal, I think the player need to know the effects of the checks specially before deciding on using clues or focus.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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I guess you could say that the players are not the characters -- they just have a lot of influence over what the characters do every turn. So I, as Davy Ashleydale, might move Leo the character, along with his Vatican Missionary, to San Francisco. Once there, I determine that I want Leo to fail his test, but Leo will of course use all of his resources, including the missionary, to pass the test. So all I can do is shake my fist at Leo and wish that I had more complete control over him.

Boy, that's a stretch. But it's kinda fun.
 
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randomlife wrote:
I guess you could say that the players are not the characters -- they just have a lot of influence over what the characters do every turn. So I, as Davy Ashleydale, might move Leo the character, along with his Vatican Missionary, to San Francisco. Once there, I determine that I want Leo to fail his test, but Leo will of course use all of his resources, including the missionary, to pass the test. So all I can do is shake my fist at Leo and wish that I had more complete control over him.

Boy, that's a stretch. But it's kinda fun.
Make sure that Leo focuses first. That way, you can reroll his successes.
 
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randomlife wrote:
Meh, it seems to me that it should be okay to fail whatever you want to fail. It's sort of like saying that someone with super strength can't choose to NOT lift a car over his head. Or someone that is super smart can't help but answer all the questions right on a test. Maybe there's some reason that they want to fail the test in order to not let on how smart they really are.
But it is thematic. Pass the wrong Strength check? You were overwhelmed with fear/greed/anger and reacted with pure adrenaline. The wrong Will check? You've learned that not even your own perceptions can be trusted, especially not that inexplicable voice saying that maybe you should let the nice man eat your memories. Lore check? Sorry, but you're in too deep now; it's far too late to flee to the safety of a new dark age...
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Ricardo Donoso
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We got an official answer, you can choose to NOT use cards that give you bonus but you can't choose not to roll the dice.

You just roll the minimum dice (attribute - check modifier) and hope you fail.

You can also reroll successes if you have powers that do so, but you can't opt to not take the check.
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