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Subject: 81x rss

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Pierre Beri
France
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What's the point of leaving the goods you deliver on your trading houses, if you take them in front of you at the end of the game?
 
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Timo Onken
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Varel
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Every trading house takes only one good in the whole game. So it reminds you, that this trading house already got one.
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Pierre Beri
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Where is this written? I searched but couldn't find anything :-/
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The rules for Module 8 say in Section 3E:

504 Rules wrote:
See below at Phase 3H or at Final Scoring for the limited delivery quantities of trading houses!
And in the corresponding Final Scoring section:

504 Rules wrote:
The player takes the goods in front of him and may score 1 good for each of his trading houses (up to 2 goods for the headquarters in his capital).
...
1. In games with the module “Pick Up & Deliver“, the player scores his goods on top of the trading houses as explained above.
Putting all three together, the part about having goods in front of you is cancelled by the final part about keeping the goods on the tokens. But the earlier rule said to follow limits on how many goods to sell in a Trading House, so it would be impossible to load more than 1 good onto each Trading House.
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Pierre Beri
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I still don't see it. Where are "limited delivery quantities" defined clearly for trading houses? I can see it when you play with module #4 (you may deliver up to 2 goods per TH), but in 81x it only tells you you may score (emphasis added) 1 good per trading house.

Which I understand as: if you have 3 goods on a trading house, you may only score one of them, or (since you take the goods in front of you first) if you have 10 goods in total, you may only score as many of them as you have THs.
 
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Jack Spirio
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We played this today and my rules interpretation was that you only sell one good at each tp except for hq where you can sell 2
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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One rule states that you are limited to scoring 2 in the headquarters and 1 at other trading houses. Another rule says that instead of selling the goods in front of you, you score the ones on the houses instead. Thus, this makes the limit also apply to the goods placed on trading houses.

It's not explicitly stated, but the limit is implicitly stated by combining those two rules. Furthermore, in the rules for delivering goods, it states that the limit for deliveries is provided in the Final Scoring section. This provides further evidence that the implicit delivery limit provided by combining the two rules is valid, as there are no other limits in that section.
 
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Jack Spirio
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They could have written that clearer, it was really not that easy to figure it out
 
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Pierre Beri
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Clipper wrote:
One rule states that you are limited to scoring 2 in the headquarters and 1 at other trading houses. Another rule says that instead of selling the goods in front of you, you score the ones on the houses instead. Thus, this makes the limit also apply to the goods placed on trading houses.

It's not explicitly stated, but the limit is implicitly stated by combining those two rules. Furthermore, in the rules for delivering goods, it states that the limit for deliveries is provided in the Final Scoring section. This provides further evidence that the implicit delivery limit provided by combining the two rules is valid, as there are no other limits in that section.
I'm used to combining different bits in rulebooks but this one still looks very grey. Well if you are right, they really messed up as it was so easy to write "1: no more than 1 good per TH". Also it seems quite hard to get money if you cannot deliver more than 1 good to each city.

I'd love an official answer on this point as it seems so abstruse.
 
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Joseph Anderson
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It is made clearer by the rules in module 1, at the bottom of the rules for the trolley movement it has:
Quote:
(8) In games with the module “Production“, each plant produces one-time only 1 good directly after the player builds it. The player places that good, for the moment, on top of the plant. Only the owner may transport the goods placed on the plants!
With 8.I 8.II : Additionally, the player must transport the goods to his trading houses and follow their limited delivery quantities!
 
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Jack Spirio
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It's not that easy to get Money, true
But you don't need that much, as residents stay unlis they get a settlement
 
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Martijn Schneider
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There is an official explanation out on their official page:

http://504-2f.de/?page_id=2251

To keep it simple (because its all written in German):

Another user had the same issue there. After a discussion back and forth, Henning Kröpke (2F-Spiele) clarified officially that Module 8.I lets you produce only one good per factory (if thats the English term for it?!) while 1.II only allows one good to be delivered to a trading house, resp. two to your HQ - where it stays until the end of the game. So basically the same that was presented here.
Whatever you have as TOP III doesn't matter, because it doesn't change the mechanism induced in TOP I and II here.

Hope this helps!

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Jack Spirio
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Thanks, good to know I got it correctly
 
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George I.
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ChromaticShift wrote:
There is an official explanation out on their official page:

http://504-2f.de/?page_id=2251

To keep it simple (because its all written in German):

Another user had the same issue there. After a discussion back and forth, Henning Kröpke (2F-Spiele) clarified officially that Module 8.I lets you produce only one good per factory (if thats the English term for it?!) while 1.II only allows one good to be delivered to a trading house, resp. two to your HQ - where it stays until the end of the game. So basically the same that was presented here.
Whatever you have as TOP III doesn't matter, because it doesn't change the mechanism induced in TOP I and II here.

Hope this helps!

It's "Betrieb = Plant", not "Factory". Plants are used in Module 8, while Factories are used in Module 3. Thanks for the link, it clarified things for me!
 
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Henning Kröpke
Germany
Ascheberg
Germany
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This is now also part of the updated FAQ V1.1 in the files section!

Henning
(2F-Spiele)
 
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Harald Torvatn
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In 812, the player may move his capital. Can he do this after having delivered two goods to it?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Harald wrote:
In 812, the player may move his capital. Can he do this after having delivered two goods to it?
Good question. That one requires input from Friedemann or Henning.

I can see three possible answers:

1: The goods on a settlement/HQ move with the settlement/HQ if you change the capital.

2: You exchange the capital leaving the goods where they are, possibly leaving two goods on one trading house, but at the end of the game, you still only can sell one of the goods at a non-HQ trading house.

3: You cannot exchange the capital once it has two tokens on it.

I'd perhaps go with option 3 until we get official word of how it should work.
 
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Henning Kröpke
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Clipper wrote:
Harald wrote:
In 812, the player may move his capital. Can he do this after having delivered two goods to it?
1: The goods on a settlement/HQ move with the settlement/HQ if you change the capital.
Correct answer.

Have fun playing 504!

Best regards,

Henning
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Marco Rosenberg
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In 81x,

the goods setup is:
4 goods of the same type on both cities of that type (40 goods),
4 goods on the good price board. (Ore is missing for this purpose!?)
I have left 1 fish, 1 wood and 2 cattle in the stock.
No wheat, no ore.

If I build a plant of wheat or ore at the first turn, where do I get the one good that I deserve?
What happens if the goods for the plants are not available at any time
during the game?

Thanks in advance for your advices!

Marco
 
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Jack Spirio
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In 81x there are no goods on the cities. You need to build plants to get them
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Jorgen Peddersen
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And with that, the only type of tokens you can possibly run out of (due to tile limitations) are wheat and fish. If you do happen to run out, use a replacement token for the excess, as the goods tokens are unlimited.
 
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Marco Rosenberg
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Thanks for the quick reply!

Please let me understand the setup instructions then.

Jack Spirio wrote:
In 81x there are no goods on the cities. You need to build plants to get them
In the module TOP.II 1 (Pick up and delivery) in
Game preparation it states:
"Display cities with their goods side atop. Place 4 goods onto each city..."

But since TOP.I 8 (Production)
states in Game preparation:
"Display land and water tiles with goods side atop"
this exclude cities because it is at higher priority?

That's mind-blowing!

Please confirm this, thanks!

 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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You are missing the part of 1.II immediately below the part you mentioned. What it actually says is:

BoW 1.II wrote:
Place 4 goods onto each city, matching the small circular symbol.
...
8. The cities remain empty.
So yes, you do have the cities goods side up but you do not place goods on the cities.
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Marco Rosenberg
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Clipper wrote:
You are missing the part of 1.II immediately below the part you mentioned. What it actually says is:

BoW 1.II wrote:
Place 4 goods onto each city, matching the small circular symbol.
...
8. The cities remain empty.
So yes, you do have the cities goods side up but you do not place goods on the cities.
Thank you so much! I should read more carefully next time.
This game is awesome!

Happy gaming to you all!

Marco
 
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