Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
42 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BGG» Forums » Gaming Related » General Gaming

Subject: Way too serious rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: ratings_episode_999 [+] [View All]
Tim

Lascassas
TN - Tennessee
msg tools
Avatar
Microbadge: Nashville Predators fanMicrobadge: Tigris & Euphrates fanMicrobadge: Arkham Horror: The Card GameMicrobadge: I love asymmetric games!Microbadge: Tennessee Titans fan
Watching Pandemic Legacy's ascension of the rankings I've come to notice there is a significant number of people rating the game a 1, with a couple of puzzling entries.
First, there are those who rate the game a 1 without ever having played it. Why? "Oh no, people like something I (probably) don't! I must exert the maximum possible effort in my power to stop others from liking something I (probably) don't! Maybe somebody will see this anonymous 1 rating to desuade them from trying it and I can save myself the agony of them enjoying it!"
Second, there was an account created on 11-5 to rate Pandemic, as well as other highly visible generally liked games, a 1. THEN, the person seemed to want to pad, probably, some of their favorite game's, rankings. BUT, there's a twist......they didn't rate the games a 10, but instead opted for the edgy decision of rating them an 8.

Is there a clause in BGG accounts that eliminates the latter type of accounts to preserve integrity of the rankings? They're a big deal, everyone.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Keiser
United States
Waunakee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Microbadge: Brian Eno fanMicrobadge: Neil Young fanMicrobadge: Queen fanMicrobadge: John Fahey fanMicrobadge: Rickie Lee Jones fan
Ignore ratings.

Elandil84 wrote:
Watching Pandemic Legacy's ascension of the rankings I've come to notice there is a significant number of people rating the game a 1, with a couple of puzzling entries.
First, there are those who rate the game a 1 without ever having played it. Why? "Oh no, people like something I (probably) don't! I must exert the maximum possible effort in my power to stop others from liking something I (probably) don't! Maybe somebody will see this anonymous 1 rating to desuade them from trying it and I can save myself the agony of them enjoying it!"
Second, there was an account created on 11-5 to rate Pandemic, as well as other highly visible generally liked games, a 1. THEN, the person seemed to want to pad, probably, some of their favorite game's, rankings. BUT, there's a twist......they didn't rate the games a 10, but instead opted for the edgy decision of rating them an 8.

Is there a clause in BGG accounts that eliminates the latter type of accounts to preserve integrity of the rankings? They're a big deal, everyone.
21 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete
United States
Northbrook
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I rated a pretty good game at 1 just because some other BGG user told me I couldn't. Guess what, he was wrong! Bottom line: don't get hung up on anyone's ratings...they don't really mean anything.

Pete (thinks that large numbers tend to work everything out in the long run)
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next Total Solar Eclipse holiday in 2024 in USA? See you there!
Avatar
Microbadge: Challenge to play 10 games 10 times each hardcore participantMicrobadge: Star Wars: Imperial Assault fan Microbadge: Fringe fanMicrobadge: Gloomhaven fanMicrobadge: Gloomhaven fan
Yes, you are way too serious.

The ratings can be used however the individual likes.

Geek Rating is calculated taking into account anomalous ratings of individuals and the more ratings there are for a game, the less they affect anything. And rankings use this geek rating instead of average rating.

No, a person won't be discouraged by looking at 1-ratings under a game entry for the simple reason that they probably even won't see them. When trying to decide if I might like a game, it would not be my first thought to look at what number some random person has associated with a game.

(Well, it has probably been almost a month or so since the previous thread about ratings and what they mean.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete
United States
Northbrook
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I personally consider it valuable to have people who hate on a game rate it at 1, even if they've never played it. Why is their opinion invalid? Must they play a game they know they won't like (if, for example, they already hate Pandemic or Risk Legacy)?

Pete (thinks 1s are as valuable as 10s)
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy P
United Kingdom
Malvern
Worcestershire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Microbadge: John's (eldonion) flag counting fanMicrobadge: I use Board Game Stats to log my gamesMicrobadge: I have at least 7,000 logged game plays!Microbadge: I love solo gaming!Microbadge: Component Bagger
A genuine question.. Are you ok with asking for a form of censorship.

In truth I dislike the practice you are outlining, but this issue does not just affect Pandemeic, lots and lots of games have the dreaded "1" applied by people who don't appear to have played the game. The issue for me here is that you seem to dislike this practice based on the fact they haven't played it. The account you found backing this up (which I find perfectly understandable). Bring a rule in saying that 1 ratings don't apply without a play and these people will just add a play to go with the 1 rating, or perhaps just rate it a 2. Just have in mind that you can often see people rating a game a 10 who do it before a game is even released. In some ways this is an even greater anomaly, but highlights that for as many people rating a game with a spurious 1, we can assume there are equally spurious high ratings. I accept there are people who might wish to rate a game having played a playtest version, but that version may not be the final version of the game in a number of ways.

There is no win to be had here. As long as ratings are able to be affected by the community of users a percentage will try to affect games ratings towards their own tastes.
6 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin C.
United States
Easton
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Must they play a game they know they won't like (if, for example, they already hate Pandemic or Risk Legacy)?
On the one hand, I get what you are saying.

On the other, I guess I just don't see what value such a rating could provide. It can't even pretend anything substantive.

Yes, at the end it is all subjective, but I think at least we can argue when someone says, "I don't like this because the first player has an advantage" or "There is no real way to mitigate the luck."

If you are simply basing the rating on paste taste, it would seem to just be "I don't like this because I don't like dice games." OK...how does that help me?

I know what I like (I would hope) is broad strokes and I would know if it is a dice game I am considering, so what good is such a judgment?

No, you shouldn't play games you don't like, but that isn't any help to me. Now, you don't have to be a help. You can keep your ratings to yourself if you like, but if you choose not to, I would hope you would go a bit deeper than, "I'm rating this game a 1 without ever playing it because I can't stand similar games."

Just better not to play it and get on with the games you enjoy...or offer a more substantive critique we can chew on at least.

I think abject taste makes all opinions useless to others..or at least useless for any sort of meaningful discussion. What is there to discuss after, "I just don't like that sort of thing"?

Kevin
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next Total Solar Eclipse holiday in 2024 in USA? See you there!
Avatar
Microbadge: Challenge to play 10 games 10 times each hardcore participantMicrobadge: Star Wars: Imperial Assault fan Microbadge: Fringe fanMicrobadge: Gloomhaven fanMicrobadge: Gloomhaven fan
You just explained to yourself why ratings are useless (without comments) in general and thus any rating is allowed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete
United States
Northbrook
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
natsean wrote:
Quote:
Must they play a game they know they won't like (if, for example, they already hate Pandemic or Risk Legacy)?
On the one hand, I get what you are saying.

On the other, I guess I just don't see what value such a rating could provide. It can't even pretend anything substantive.

Yes, at the end it is all subjective, but I think at least we can argue when someone says, "I don't like this because the first player has an advantage" or "There is no real way to mitigate the luck."

If you are simply basing the rating on paste taste, it would seem to just be "I don't like this because I don't like dice games." OK...how does that help me?

I know what I like (I would hope) is broad strokes and I would know if it is a dice game I am considering, so what good is such a judgment?

No, you shouldn't play games you don't like, but that isn't any help to me. Now, you don't have to be a help. You can keep your ratings to yourself if you like, but if you choose not to, I would hope you would go a bit deeper than, "I'm rating this game a 1 without ever playing it because I can't stand similar games."

Just better not to play it and get on with the games you enjoy...or offer a more substantive critique we can chew on at least.

I think abject taste makes all opinions useless to others..or at least useless for any sort of meaningful discussion. What is there to discuss after, "I just don't like that sort of thing"?

Kevin
I would guess that some 90% of the ratings on the site boil down to "I just like/dislike that sort of thing."

Pete (thinks you're asking a bit much of people)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tony Go
United States
New York
Manhattan
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
If you're having hull problems I feel bad for you son, I've got 99 problems but a breach ain't one.
badge
TauLeaderGames.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not the mention the way Kickstarter has created a new legion of hype machines.

I'm reminded of a certain pirate themed board game that appeared on Kickstarter.

During it's campaign, it had fifteen 9 or higher reviews (9 of them perfect 10s) made mostly by brand new accounts created the same week the Kickstarter went live.

Where are those accounts now? No log-ins past a month or so after registration.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Williams
Canada
Mississauga
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
natsean wrote:

If you are simply basing the rating on paste taste, it would seem to just be "I don't like this because I don't like dice games." OK...how does that help me?

I know what I like (I would hope) is broad strokes and I would know if it is a dice game I am considering, so what good is such a judgment?
I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you in principle.
However, the same can also be said in reverse, where someone rates a minis game 10 because they love minis and think the pics for this game look awesome (without necessarily having played the game.) How does that rating help anyone?

It is for this exact reason that I never pay attention to ratings, and have never rated anything myself. If I want to know whether or not I'll like a game, I look for full reviews. Either video or text is fine. I also make a point of looking for negative reviews as well as positive ones, and I find both kinds will highlight different points of consideration about the game.

Writing a review requires more effort, and even a half-assed review will at least sort of explain the basics of the rules. (Therefore, positive or negative, the author must be familiar with more than just the blurb on the back of the box.)

If you find the ratings system frustrating, I would suggest you stop looking at them. Coding up a ratings system that could ensure the people providing ratings have an informed basis for their input is simply not possible - if it were, politicians would have a much harder time getting elected.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Miller
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Horror Leader wrote:
Not the mention the way Kickstarter has created a new legion of hype machines.

I'm reminded of a certain pirate themed board game that appeared on Kickstarter.

During it's campaign, it had fifteen 9 or higher reviews (9 of them perfect 10s) made mostly by brand new accounts created the same week the Kickstarter went live.

Where are those accounts now? No log-ins past a month or so after registration.
And were people fooled by these shenanigans? Is this game in the top 10? Top 100?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Olli Juhala
Finland
Turku
flag msg tools
Avatar
Microbadge: Level 13 BGG posterMicrobadge: Castles of Burgundy fanMicrobadge: I'm a Yokohama fan!Microbadge: Keyflower fanMicrobadge: A Feast for Odin fan
Katielou wrote:
A genuine question.. Are you ok with asking for a form of censorship.

In truth I dislike the practice you are outlining, but this issue does not just affect Pandemeic, lots and lots of games have the dreaded "1" applied by people who don't appear to have played the game. The issue for me here is that you seem to dislike this practice based on the fact they haven't played it. The account you found backing this up (which I find perfectly understandable). Bring a rule in saying that 1 ratings don't apply without a play and these people will just add a play to go with the 1 rating, or perhaps just rate it a 2. Just have in mind that you can often see people rating a game a 10 who do it before a game is even released. In some ways this is an even greater anomaly, but highlights that for as many people rating a game with a spurious 1, we can assume there are equally spurious high ratings. I accept there are people who might wish to rate a game having played a playtest version, but that version may not be the final version of the game in a number of ways.

There is no win to be had here. As long as ratings are able to be affected by the community of users a percentage will try to affect games ratings towards their own tastes.
Rating rules are not a free speech issue.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Brown
United States
Okemos
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Microbadge: Code MonkeyMicrobadge: GMT fanMicrobadge: ChristianMicrobadge: City of Heroes fanMicrobadge: I Love Gaming with My GirlFriend!!!
Eh, it's no Imperial Assault. whistle
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy P
United Kingdom
Malvern
Worcestershire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Microbadge: John's (eldonion) flag counting fanMicrobadge: I use Board Game Stats to log my gamesMicrobadge: I have at least 7,000 logged game plays!Microbadge: I love solo gaming!Microbadge: Component Bagger
Shader10 wrote:
Katielou wrote:
A genuine question.. Are you ok with asking for a form of censorship.

In truth I dislike the practice you are outlining, but this issue does not just affect Pandemeic, lots and lots of games have the dreaded "1" applied by people who don't appear to have played the game. The issue for me here is that you seem to dislike this practice based on the fact they haven't played it. The account you found backing this up (which I find perfectly understandable). Bring a rule in saying that 1 ratings don't apply without a play and these people will just add a play to go with the 1 rating, or perhaps just rate it a 2. Just have in mind that you can often see people rating a game a 10 who do it before a game is even released. In some ways this is an even greater anomaly, but highlights that for as many people rating a game with a spurious 1, we can assume there are equally spurious high ratings. I accept there are people who might wish to rate a game having played a playtest version, but that version may not be the final version of the game in a number of ways.

There is no win to be had here. As long as ratings are able to be affected by the community of users a percentage will try to affect games ratings towards their own tastes.
Rating rules are not a free speech issue.
Well they kind of are in my eyes, you are expressing an opinion for others to see/read when you rate a game. Not a great deal different to writing a comment.

I accept that not everyone will agree with my view though. My aim was to provoke a little thought rather than have a thread descend into a slanging match as some threads do.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kelly Bass
United States
Venice
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You must have known someone was going to ask this, so here goes:
Why did you rate Cards Against Humanity a 1, even though you have no logged plays?
You're welcome.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave S
England
Newcastle under lyme
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with what you say to some degree but generally speaking the games in the top 300 are there on merit and deserve the ranking that they have so the idiots that mark a 1 for no reason don't seem to have a great effect except maybe showing their own stupidity.
I put more trust in the comments to see if these people put a fair case to justify either a 1 or a 10.
Personally I try to give a mark based on many different aspects of the game and personal preference only accounts for maybe 2 points out of the 10. Things such as cost, component quality, depth of play etc make up the rest of the points which is why Caverna got 7 points from me even though I don't actually like the game as I can see that it is a good game but just not to my taste.
I don't believe that people should be allowed to rate a game that they haven't played but stopping it is impossible and I'm too busy actually playing games to loose any sleep over it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Elandil84 wrote:
Watching Pandemic Legacy's ascension of the rankings I've come to notice there is a significant number of people rating the game a 1, with a couple of puzzling entries.
First, there are those who rate the game a 1 without ever having played it. Why? "Oh no, people like something I (probably) don't! I must exert the maximum possible effort in my power to stop others from liking something I (probably) don't! Maybe somebody will see this anonymous 1 rating to desuade them from trying it and I can save myself the agony of them enjoying it!"
Second, there was an account created on 11-5 to rate Pandemic, as well as other highly visible generally liked games, a 1. THEN, the person seemed to want to pad, probably, some of their favorite game's, rankings. BUT, there's a twist......they didn't rate the games a 10, but instead opted for the edgy decision of rating them an 8.

Is there a clause in BGG accounts that eliminates the latter type of accounts to preserve integrity of the rankings? They're a big deal, everyone.
Let us say it again, ratings are not how good you think the game is, but how much you want to play it.

If you think a game looks utter crap than a rating of 1 would be perfectly valid (for example I would rate Magic the slavering as a 1, I have seen it played and loath all about it).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shader10 wrote:
Katielou wrote:
A genuine question.. Are you ok with asking for a form of censorship.

In truth I dislike the practice you are outlining, but this issue does not just affect Pandemeic, lots and lots of games have the dreaded "1" applied by people who don't appear to have played the game. The issue for me here is that you seem to dislike this practice based on the fact they haven't played it. The account you found backing this up (which I find perfectly understandable). Bring a rule in saying that 1 ratings don't apply without a play and these people will just add a play to go with the 1 rating, or perhaps just rate it a 2. Just have in mind that you can often see people rating a game a 10 who do it before a game is even released. In some ways this is an even greater anomaly, but highlights that for as many people rating a game with a spurious 1, we can assume there are equally spurious high ratings. I accept there are people who might wish to rate a game having played a playtest version, but that version may not be the final version of the game in a number of ways.

There is no win to be had here. As long as ratings are able to be affected by the community of users a percentage will try to affect games ratings towards their own tastes.
Rating rules are not a free speech issue.
And this is not the RSP forum, so lets lay of the free speech stuff.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sturner wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Shader10 wrote:
Katielou wrote:
A genuine question.. Are you ok with asking for a form of censorship.

In truth I dislike the practice you are outlining, but this issue does not just affect Pandemeic, lots and lots of games have the dreaded "1" applied by people who don't appear to have played the game. The issue for me here is that you seem to dislike this practice based on the fact they haven't played it. The account you found backing this up (which I find perfectly understandable). Bring a rule in saying that 1 ratings don't apply without a play and these people will just add a play to go with the 1 rating, or perhaps just rate it a 2. Just have in mind that you can often see people rating a game a 10 who do it before a game is even released. In some ways this is an even greater anomaly, but highlights that for as many people rating a game with a spurious 1, we can assume there are equally spurious high ratings. I accept there are people who might wish to rate a game having played a playtest version, but that version may not be the final version of the game in a number of ways.

There is no win to be had here. As long as ratings are able to be affected by the community of users a percentage will try to affect games ratings towards their own tastes.
Rating rules are not a free speech issue.
And this is not the RSP forum, so lets lay of the free speech stuff.
So don't speak freely about free speech?
Free speech is a political issue, as such discussions about it really end up becoming political arguments.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luis Oliva
Spain
Barcelona
Barcelona
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Law of large numbers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean Conroy
United States
Winchester
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just add 1 to any rating to get the true number, and cut through all the ignorance.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Northampton
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The idea that ratings are sacred is ridiculous. Just accept that there is some portion of the ratings that you'll disagree with. Some of those will be people with bad taste in games and some of those will be wonky ratings. There will always end up being a general consensus that will outweigh the outlier ratings.

Or even better yet, just geekbuddy people with good taste in games who always make valid ratings and only pay attention to the geekbuddy analysis feature in the stats section.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alison Mandible
United States
Cambridge
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Elandil84 wrote:
THEN, the person seemed to want to pad, probably, some of their favorite game's, rankings. BUT, there's a twist......they didn't rate the games a 10, but instead opted for the edgy decision of rating them an 8.
If giving high scores to games you like is "padding rankings", then hopefully lots and lots of people are guilty of padding rankings. Since people assigning games scores that accurately reflect whether they like the game is good for the rating system and all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carthoris Pyramidos
United States
Littleton
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Microbadge: Golden MeepleMicrobadge: Rules readerMicrobadge: Kingsport Festival fan - CultMicrobadge: GeekModderMicrobadge: Gold game player. At least 5,000 logged game plays!
Elandil84 wrote:
They're a big deal, everyone.
To whom? Why?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   |