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Subject: Do you think Dominion will still be around in 100 years? rss

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Ien C.
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Curious -- do you think folks will still be playing this game in 100 years?
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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If there are tabletop games in 100 years as we know them now, Dominion has as good a chance to survive as anything currently in production.
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I just got back from 100 years in the future (don't ask) and the only surviving game is Munchkin, but they play it all the time; in fact, play is mandatory.
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matt feldman
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approximately 1% chance this game will be played by more than a handful of people in 100 years.
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BrackAttack wrote:
I just got back from 100 years in the future (don't ask) and the only surviving game is Munchkin, but they play it all the time; in fact, play is mandatory.
Was it called Munchkintopia?
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jojobinks wrote:
approximately 1% chance this game will be played by more than a handful of people in 100 years.
I guess better than the .5% chance that tabletop games exist in 100 years. Good for Dominion!!!
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Andy Andersen
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ghopper21 wrote:
Curious -- do you think folks will still be playing this game in 100 years?
does it matter?

it is better to extrapolate if it will still be around within your lifetime ...

will people be playing it in 10 years?

what about 20? or 40?

We can look at games created in the 70's/80's, how many of them are still being played?

D&D is still being played, but it is not the same game as 40 years ago ...

Magic the Gathering is still being played, but it is also not the same game as 20 years ago ...

Dominion, if it exists, would be a completely different game than what we know it as now. In 7 years it's had the base game and 8 expansions .... or something like that ... extrapolating, in 100 years, it would have 100 some expansions ... which means you could play dozens and dozens of games and not have a single card in the set that exists present day ...

oh .. and you'd be dead ... so it doesn't matter anyway ...
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Scott Schelter
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MunchWolf wrote:
ghopper21 wrote:
Curious -- do you think folks will still be playing this game in 100 years?
Does it matter? We can look at games created in the 70's/80's, how many of them are still being played? D&D is still being played, but it is not the same game as 40 years ago. Magic the Gathering is still being played, but it is also not the same game as 20 years ago.
Axis & Allies was created in the 80's; Risk was created I am not sure when in the past. While there are evolutions of both that are now sold and played, the originals still get a lot of play.
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ghopper21 wrote:
Curious -- do you think folks will still be playing this game in 100 years?
I thought Dark Ages would be the last expansion, but we did get Adventures. IIRC, the one thing that's likely as far as new Dom material goes are more promos. I don't think more expansions is the answer to get it going, as it's become waay too unwieldy even as of a few exps ago.


Dom sort of reminds me of Games Workshop in where it's steadily drawing in new crowds. Amongst those, they will either go into most/all the expansions, and continue playing it, will feel they've had a good run and sell it all off while pursuing other bg interests, or just get sick of it sooner than later and do something else. The "new crowds" and "staying veterans" are those that'll help keep Dom active.


But another issue is that even today, Dom has to compete with so many other games... kickstarted, or otherwise being released the traditional way. I still recall going to conventions when Dom first came out. I wanted to see if I could learn the game at 2am. There were 3 games in progress, and 3 other people looking to get in a game of that 2, so that was my first game of Dominion cool In the 4 years since then, I've seen plenty of folks with the Dominion series. In recent years, I may or may not see somebody with Dominion and its expansions, but even when I do see it, it's just one copy.


My take is that it's likely to still get played in 100 years, but nowhere near its peak. Honestly, I'm thinking humanity and the US may not have long for this world, but that's for another thread entirely
 
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Salvador C. Majoral

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If people had asked in 1977 about the future of Star wars few people would have said that in 40 years time it would be bigger than it was back then. The secret has been the release of new films. My own personal theory is that Star wars will never end: generations and generations of directors and actors will carry on the saga much longer than our lives, probably. Well, all Dominion needs to do is the same. Someday Vaccarino can hand off the baton to somebody else to keep the game alive for a new generation, and so on, to eternity. And beyond.

(well, indeed the handing off of the baton may have started somehow: he asked somebody else to design the new promo card Summon. If I'm not wrong it is the first Dominion card not designed by Vaccarino, am I wrong?)
 
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Seth Owen
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Shelter wrote:
MunchWolf wrote:
ghopper21 wrote:
Curious -- do you think folks will still be playing this game in 100 years?
Does it matter? We can look at games created in the 70's/80's, how many of them are still being played? D&D is still being played, but it is not the same game as 40 years ago. Magic the Gathering is still being played, but it is also not the same game as 20 years ago.
Axis & Allies was created in the 80's; Risk was created I am not sure when in the past. While there are evolutions of both that are now sold and played, the originals still get a lot of play.
Even better examples are Scrabble, Diplomacy, Monopoly, Nuclear War and Acquire, all of which are already more than 50 and going strong. I think it's very likely the best of today's tabletop games will still have fans playing them on their hundredth anniversary.
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Using Scrabble, Risk, and other mass market games isn't the best example, as they certainly have the numbers, sales, familiarity, and marketing to back them up. OTOH, Dominion has made strides in becoming more mainstream then ever. Granted, it still pales in comparison to those MM stuff, but still nothing to sneer at.
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Shelter wrote:

Axis & Allies was created in the 80's; Risk was created I am not sure when in the past. While there are evolutions of both that are now sold and played, the originals still get a lot of play.
We had Risk around when I was a kid back in the 60's. And the new Monopolies coming out were much, much more up-to-date than the one we had around the house, which was already a gazillion years old. But that's just anecdotal.

Actually looking them up... Monopoly is 82 years old. Risk is 56 years old. Scrabble 67.

I wonder if anyone asked if Chess or Backgammon would exist in a 1000 years. Not sure why anyone would think there's a .5% chance tabletop games will exist. They've existed a long time, and will probably continue to exist for a long time. They'll change, be made differently, but despite how much people play junk on the computer or some device, I think there's still nothing like sitting down at a table and playing with real humans. (On the other hand, real humans text each other and don't talk... and now Gmail can respond for you. So, perhaps not.)
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Monopoly, Risk, scrabble, chess, go, Diplomacy and so on did exist in a period where boardgames were scarce. Maybe one new game per years at peak.
Now we have more than 500 new games a year (I believe more but I remember I read this figure somewhere).
Thus, good games are released on a daily basis and game are rapidly forgotten for faster, stronger, better games. This is more pregnant for specialist games, where gamers know of newcomers and switch fast. Dominion is a specialist game, whatever could be said on the forums.

Some game resist longer, like currently dominion, mainly thanks to a long term release calendar. But as soon as the last expansion will have been released, the interest will fade and newcomers will gradually replace Dominion in the heart of gamers.

Dominion is a great game, I love it, but I don't believe it will be a game marking history, I believe no game will anymore mark history (unless implied in historical events)

In fact, I'm quite sure it will be forgotten in 10 years.

Games who may be remembered in 20 years (in France at least imho)... Werewolf, dobble, jungle speed.
 
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Duinhir wrote:
Monopoly, Risk, scrabble, chess, go, Diplomacy and so on did exist in a period where boardgames were scarce. Maybe one new game per years at peak.
Chess and Go are ancient games. Monopoly, Scrabble, Risk and Diplomacy are not, but only Monopoly really came into a world were boardgames were scarce in general, Monopoly helped create a world where boardgame purchases were common (albeit mostly for children).

Monopoly was published in 1933. BGG has 14 games published that year with at least one rating, though all but Monopoly are now obscure. (I've played and rated one other myself, but I'm one of only six raters.)

Scrabble was published in 1948. BGG has 20 games published that year with at least one rating, though only one other (Electric Football) has 30+ ratings.

Risk and Diplomacy were *both* first published in 1959. BGG has 68 games published that year with at least one rating, ten of which had 30+ ratings. Memory is probably the most famous of the others.

Quote:
Now we have more than 500 new games a year (I believe more but I remember I read this figure somewhere).
Thus, good games are released on a daily basis and game are rapidly forgotten for faster, stronger, better games. This is more pregnant for specialist games, where gamers know of newcomers and switch fast. Dominion is a specialist game, whatever could be said on the forums.
You don't sell over a million copies of a game if it's inaccessible to gamers outside our little hobby niche. Even within our little niche, the "cult of the new" doesn't make top-selling games "rapidly forgotten".

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Some game resist longer, like currently dominion, mainly thanks to a long term release calendar. But as soon as the last expansion will have been released, the interest will fade and newcomers will gradually replace Dominion in the heart of gamers.
Maybe so, but how quick will the degradation be? Enough that Dominion isn't in the top 100 at the closest analogue to BGG a century from now? Almost certain. Enough that Dominion will be out of print? Very likely, IMO. Enough that Dominion won't be played by anyone, anywhere, in any form? Wildly improbable, IMO.

I think Dominion's best hope for the future is in digital form. With it's astounding variety and straightforward gameplay, I don't see a reason why it couldn't survive indefinitely as an electronic timewaster, given what we don't have now, a quality implementation and a respectable AI. An implementation that allows custom digital cards could also keep new content coming past the death of all current players.

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Dominion is a great game, I love it, but I don't believe it will be a game marking history, I believe no game will anymore mark history (unless implied in historical events)

In fact, I'm quite sure it will be forgotten in 10 years..
Hyperbole? Dominion won the SdJ in 2009. Have the SdJ winners from pre-2000 been forgotten in a similar timeframe? It depends on your definition of "forgotten", I suppose. Here's the past winners

1979 Hare and Tortoise
1980 Rummikub
1981 Focus
1982 Enchanted Forest
1983 Scotland Yard
1984 Dampfross
1985 Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective
1986 Heimlich & Co.
1987 Auf Achse
1988 Barbarossa
1989 Cafe International
1990 Hoity Toity
1991 Wacky Wacky West
1992 Um Reifenbreite
1993 Liar's Dice
1994 Manhattan
1995 Settlers of Catan
1996 El Grande
1997 Mississippi Queen
1998 Elfenland
1999 Tikal

Some of those games are obscure now, some have been reprinted in the recent past, and one (Catan) is still the best-selling game in our niche. I'm not going to bet against Settlers being played in 100 years.

Dominion's reliance on expansions may not make it as evergreen as Catan is likely to be, but it's more like Catan than any of the other games. Here's the top ten games with the highest number of ratings on the site:

54493 Catan
53665 Carcassonne
45083 Dominion
45006 Pandemic
40402 Puerto Rico
40290 Agricola
37851 Ticket to Ride
37743 7 Wonders
34961 Power Grid
33731 Small World

None of those games are going to be forgotten in ten years. I don't think any of them will go out of print for as long as a year.

And for perspective in the real world, here's where those ten games appear on Amazon's current list of best selling board games:
#6 Settlers of Catan
#9 Ticket to Ride
#19 Pandemic
#29 Seven Wonders
#74 Dominion
#90 Carcassonne

Who can tell what will happen in a century, but ten years is way too short for games like these to be forgotten. Heck, ten years from now I expect my game group is STILL going to be playing Dominion more than all other games combined. BGG is full of people entraced by the cult of the new, but there's plenty of people in the world content to play one familiar game regularly and repeatedly--and now some of those people play Dominion.
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dalestephenson wrote:
I think Dominion's best hope for the future is in digital form. With it's astounding variety and straightforward gameplay, I don't see a reason why it couldn't survive indefinitely as an electronic timewaster, given what we don't have now, a quality implementation and a respectable AI. An implementation that allows custom digital cards could also keep new content coming past the death of all current players.
Well, this has worked for me at least. Since I got my Samsung Galaxy s2 back in Nov. 2011, and up to now with my new phone, I've played 1600+ games on Androminion. Many games are on the straightforward side, but some do turn out with a twist. Especially ones where despite fancy cards, Big Money really was the way to go. The AI pales in comparison to good Dominion players, so I'm sure in some of those cases, they would've executed some things to better effect, but it's surprising how some games work out.
 
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salva wrote:
If people had asked in 1977 about the future of Star wars few people would have said that in 40 years time it would be bigger than it was back then. The secret has been the release of new films. My own personal theory is that Star wars will never end: generations and generations of directors and actors will carry on the saga much longer than our lives, probably. Well, all Dominion needs to do is the same. Someday Vaccarino can hand off the baton to somebody else to keep the game alive for a new generation, and so on, to eternity. And beyond.

(well, indeed the handing off of the baton may have started somehow: he asked somebody else to design the new promo card Summon. If I'm not wrong it is the first Dominion card not designed by Vaccarino, am I wrong?)
You are wrong, more or less. The card Courtyard was a creation of another playtester, Sir Bailey. Counting House's concept was suggested by Donald's wife. Donald did ask me if I wanted to make a promo (which ended up being Summon), but don't read too much into that. No baton passing is taking place. I think the chance that Donald will ever hand off Dominion's development to someone else is effectively zero. One important difference: the number of potential good Star Wars films/books/games/lunchboxes is infinite, whereas the number of potential good Dominion cards is finite (at least in Donald's mind, and I tend to agree). Once all the good cards are exhausted, why allow somebody else to make bad cards?
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LastFootnote wrote:
One important difference: the number of potential good Star Wars films/books/games/lunchboxes is infinite, whereas the number of potential good Dominion cards is finite (at least in Donald's mind, and I tend to agree). Once all the good cards are exhausted, why allow somebody else to make bad cards?
There's an interesting contrast here between Dominion and my second favorite deckbuilder, Legendary. The Dominion variant forum is where original cards go to die. The Legendary variant forum is where original cards go to be praised and printed. The difference is that Legendary variants need to be *thematically* interesting and not mechanically broken. Dominion variants need to be *mechanically* interesting and properly costed, and that's more difficult to achieve.

Still, even if we accept that the number of potential good cards is finite, the question becomes how close we are to achieving that finite number. I would think there's a reasonable number of hypothetical (if not commercially viable) cards that could be done with potions or coins, both of which have kingdom cards confined to one small set. And I suspect the number of events that exist are a fraction of the number of interesting events that *could* exist.

Another difference between Star Wars and Dominion (with all expansions) is that while Star Wars is potentially infinite, if I confine myself to officially licensed Star Wars books and movies, it is actually finite and I could reasonably consume them all. While the number of official Dominion cards is very finite, the number of interesting combinations is sufficiently high that I can't possibly play through them all in my lifetime.
 
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MunchWolf wrote:
ghopper21 wrote:
Curious -- do you think folks will still be playing this game in 100 years?
Magic the Gathering is still being played, but it is also not the same game as 20 years ago ...
Who wants to take a stab at explaining what game Magic is now?

I thought of M:TG when I saw this thread. I was there almost at the beginning, and was super into it for a time. Eventually, as they kept changing the rules and adding mechanics, I threw in the towel. Every design decision made the game less fun for me, from "defenders that tap to use special abilities can still do damage" to "when you kill this powerful monster its owner automatically gets it back anyway" abilities. Whole thing just carried too far, and the game couldn't survive. Only it did, 'cause when I go to the local FLGS, all the kids are Gathering to play Magic. Really wonder how it survived.

I think Dominion is on that precipice. I thought Adventures might be the set where it finally jumped the shark, introducing too much fiddliness or too much bookkeeping or whatever, but in my limited experience with the set, I've like what it adds, and I don't believe it mucks the game up after all. But when the next set comes out with a Catapult, I'll know it's in trouble.

I can envision Dominion as something that goes out of print, sits for a number of years, then comes back with a different basic card mix, different expansions combining some original cards with some new ones, and so on. The Cosmic Encounter life cycle, if you will. I could easily see if flowing through that kind of death/resurrection a couple of times.

But 100 years...make any claim you like. I won't be around to disprove it!
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kevinwho wrote:
...I thought Adventures might be the set where it finally jumped the shark, introducing too much fiddliness or too much bookkeeping or whatever, but in my limited experience with the set, I've like what it adds, and I don't believe it mucks the game up after all. But when the next set comes out with a Catapult Shark Tank and a Motorcycle, I'll know it's in trouble.
FTFY
 
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Whizkid wrote:
kevinwho wrote:
But when the next set comes out with a Catapult Shark Tank and a Motorcycle, I'll know it's in trouble.
FTFY
I thought the catapult reference was a dig on Carcassonne.
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Svengaard wrote:
Whizkid wrote:
kevinwho wrote:
But when the next set comes out with a Catapult Shark Tank and a Motorcycle, I'll know it's in trouble.
FTFY
I thought the catapult reference was a dig on Carcassonne.
Despite not knowing that, they're still both correct.
 
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I believe in even the near future we'd be able to print and play any game that we have nowadays. 3D print coins and embargo tokens even. Dominion would be perfect for this, people may personalize any deck and dominion is a perfect game to just make ur own cards or tokens, there's no constraints . There'd be no money for designers but the guy who made checkers never made a dang thing either.
So to answer your question if we have that much access to any creative content in the future and alongside a large historic database that keeps all games, books, plays or anything then dominion could never die or any game really.
 
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MillionsOfBees wrote:

So to answer your question if we have that much access to any creative content in the future and alongside a large historic database that keeps all games, books, plays or anything then dominion could never die or any game really.
A game doesn't die because it isn't available: a game dies because nobody plays it.
 
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