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Subject: Two pregame questions related to Craft Buildings rss

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Enon Sci
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I really hate this rulebook.

Ok, in the rules it implies once you supply a craft building you can no longer make deliveries to it, but nothing in the set-up says to limit the number of craft building markers to the player count. The combined effect of these two elements makes me wonder if the line related to no longer being able to deliver goods is absolute, or relative to the turn that triggered the building being filled.

Which is it? Did I miss a rule about restricting the number of craft markers in a two or three player game?

2) Craft Building deliveries in town are not a VP developing strategy, no? I'm trying to form a big picture distinction between the individual Market Burrow cards and deliveries to the craft buildings. Craft building can make you VP if you help unlock one of the three unavailable craft buildings, and they net you craft markers, but that is it, right?

Just making sure I'm not overlooking anything. I hate how this rule book doesn't have a concise summary of details, but forces you to pick through paragraphs of text to find the singular rule you might be missing.



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Enon Sci
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Bannoran wrote:
You don't limit craft markers in 2 and 2 player games. you cant revisit somewhere you've finished.

You open up another area when you've finished one.


You sure about that? To quote from the rules:
Quote:

When a player has fully supplied a craft building (i.e. his player markers occupy each space in his row), he immediately transfers one of these markers to one of the spaces at the building highlighted in light‐gray. The player may no longer make deliveries to this craft building. His remaining player markers are returned to his pool. If the player is the first one to fully supply a craft building, he immediately takes the victory point from the gray spot.


I just want to make sure this isn't saying what it appears to be saying.

To be extra clear: Can I, or can I not, acquire multiple versions of the same craft marker over the course of play?
 
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Dan Blum
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You can't. In addition to the rule you quote (which seems quite clear to me), see 2.5.3:

Quote:
Each player may get one marker at each craft building.
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Enon Sci
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tool wrote:
You can't. In addition to the rule you quote (which seems quite clear to me), see 2.5.3:

Quote:
Each player may get one marker at each craft building.


So is Colin is wrong (that you can send deliveries to craft houses you've already completed) or is Colin right, but we don't get another Craft Marker (just the VP reward and perhaps the ability to unlock another building)?

If Colin is wrong (or even if he is right, but we can't take extra craft markers), why use all the markers in a two or three player game? Oversight?
 
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Dan Blum
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Anarchosyn wrote:
tool wrote:
You can't. In addition to the rule you quote (which seems quite clear to me), see 2.5.3:

Quote:
Each player may get one marker at each craft building.


Colin is wrong (that you can send deliveries to craft houses you've already completed) or Colin is right, but we don't get another Craft Marker?


He said you CAN'T send deliveries to craft houses you've completed, which is correct.
 
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Enon Sci
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tool wrote:
Anarchosyn wrote:
tool wrote:
You can't. In addition to the rule you quote (which seems quite clear to me), see 2.5.3:

Quote:
Each player may get one marker at each craft building.


Colin is wrong (that you can send deliveries to craft houses you've already completed) or Colin is right, but we don't get another Craft Marker?


He said you CAN'T send deliveries to craft houses you've completed, which is correct.


Ahh, the lack of an apostrophe (combined with his admission we don't limit them) made me misread "cant" for "can." My bad.

So what is the point of the extra markers? Oversight?
 
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Dan Blum
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Anarchosyn wrote:
So what is the point of the extra markers? Oversight?


I assume. Since the player pieces at the craft buildings make it clear who can and can't deliver to one, having extra markers on one doesn't hurt anything.
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Anarchosyn wrote:
I really hate this rulebook.


Hate is such a strong word.

Anarchosyn wrote:

Ok, in the rules it implies once you supply a craft building you can no longer make deliveries to it, but nothing in the set-up says to limit the number of craft building markers to the player count. The combined effect of these two elements makes me wonder if the line related to no longer being able to deliver goods is absolute, or relative to the turn that triggered the building being filled.

Which is it? Did I miss a rule about restricting the number of craft markers in a two or three player game?


I am sorry to say that this is left out in the setup in the Stronghold version of the rules. The Spielworxx edition of the game had it in the setup. I quote the Spiwlworxx-rulebook:

"The players put one craft marker per player on the respective craft buildings plus 1 victory point each on the light gray spaces adjacent to the buildings (the ones with the four spaces for player markers)."

But since this chapter still has the necessary information...

"2.5.3 Craft Markers
Each craft building in the village has its own
specific craft marker. Each player may get one marker at each craft building." (please see page 5 for this chapter)

... maybe they found that it was irrelevant and left the limitation out in the setup. Also the rules do not only imply but express clearly the follwing:

"The player may no longer make deliveries to this craft building."

This can be found on page 15 of the rulebook.

I can see why it is confusing that the setup is not depicting this by reducing the used craft markers to the number of players. But still all the information you need are there.

Anarchosyn wrote:

2) Craft Building deliveries in town are not a VP developing strategy, no? I'm trying to form a big picture distinction between the individual Market Burrow cards and deliveries to the craft buildings. Craft building can make you VP if you help unlock one of the three unavailable craft buildings, and they net you craft markers, but that is it, right?

Just making sure I'm not overlooking anything. I hate how this rule book doesn't have a concise summary of details, but forces you to pick through paragraphs of text to find the singular rule you might be missing.


I am sorry to say that you did overlook something. I have to admit, that this is a common mistake and to be honest it is a bit "hidden in plain sight" in the rulebook. But I know where to look and may be able to help you out:

"The player also takes one of the craft markers from the building and places it, front side up, on the corresponding space of his farm and receives a number of victory points according to the current game round." (This can be found on page 16.)

Once you memorize this rule it is very easy to remind yourself during a play. You get VPs acording to the current round and this is displayed on the board by the stacks of roof tiles. If this is any trouble to you maybe you can find a meeple in your private collection and let it wander on the spacees where you took the roof tiles from through the course of the game. So the meeple shows the current round and will help you remember how many points you will get by completing a craft building.

I know this is a bit frustrating since the game has no reminder of how many points you will get for this and using gaming components which are not included in the box is .... not so nice...

But if you liked the game and plan on further plays you maybe find this helping to enjoy the game. I sure do hope so! Please feel free to post any other questions you might have about the game and I hope I see them here and be able to reply quite fast...
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Isaac Childres
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bayerbube wrote:
"The player also takes one of the craft markers from the building and places it, front side up, on the corresponding space of his farm and receives a number of victory points according to the current game round." (This can be found on page 16.)

"According" is a really terrible and vague word to use here. Do they mean "equal"? As in, if I complete a craft building in round 1, I get 1 point, and if I complete a craft building in round 5, I get 5 points?

I hope this doesn't come across as pedantic. I just played this for the first time over the weekend and was surprised at my high score relative to the other players, which was achieved by focusing on completing craft buildings in the last couple rounds. I am just worried I scored them incorrectly.
 
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Cephalofair wrote:
bayerbube wrote:
"The player also takes one of the craft markers from the building and places it, front side up, on the corresponding space of his farm and receives a number of victory points according to the current game round." (This can be found on page 16.)

"According" is a really terrible and vague word to use here. Do they mean "equal"? As in, if I complete a craft building in round 1, I get 1 point, and if I complete a craft building in round 5, I get 5 points?


Yes, what you explained is right. Please excuse my bad english.
 
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Isaac Childres
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bayerbube wrote:
Cephalofair wrote:
bayerbube wrote:
"The player also takes one of the craft markers from the building and places it, front side up, on the corresponding space of his farm and receives a number of victory points according to the current game round." (This can be found on page 16.)

"According" is a really terrible and vague word to use here. Do they mean "equal"? As in, if I complete a craft building in round 1, I get 1 point, and if I complete a craft building in round 5, I get 5 points?


Yes, what you explained is right. Please excuse my bad english.

Oh, ha, I didn't mean to insult you. It is the rule book's bad English, not yours. Unless you wrote the English rule book? I figured that was Stronghold's doing.

Thanks for the answer, though. Much appreciated!
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No, I wasn't feeling insulted. I am just no native speaker. Sometimes I just write stuf... ;-)

I did not write the english rule book.

So, we're good!
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Isaac Childres
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Cool!

And I must say, playing La Granja was definitely one of the highlights of my Geekway to the West convention experience this last weekend. It is a truly fantastic game!
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Tyrone ..................
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And I agree that the rule book is....not user friendly. Everything is in it, but it is difficult to find things and piece together since rules for the same thing are spread over multiple pages.
 
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