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Subject: Mix expansion cards in when playing base game? rss

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Constantine Caviris
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I recently got the three expansions for this game and I'm curious what everyone else does. When you place the base game, do you leave the cards from the expansion games mixed in or do you play with just the cards from the base game? I looked through the skill check, destination, crisis cards, and the rest, and for the most part they seem to fit fine with the base game (there were one or two cards from Pegasus that mentioned executions, those should probably be taken out or ignored if they come up). Does it unbalance the game to mix everything in? It looks to me like if it just adds more variability. What do you do when playing the base game?
 
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psychotic33089 wrote:
I recently got the three expansions for this game and I'm curious what everyone else does. When you place the base game, do you leave the cards from the expansion games mixed in or do you play with just the cards from the base game? I looked through the skill check, destination, crisis cards, and the rest, and for the most part they seem to fit fine with the base game (there were one or two cards from Pegasus that mentioned executions, those should probably be taken out or ignored if they come up). Does it unbalance the game to mix everything in? It looks to me like if it just adds more variability. What do you do when playing the base game?
For just base game, ideally... use only the base game cards. Almost as an errata, for the skill cards.... swap in the Pegasus-style Investigative Committees (yellow/Politics cards) in place of the base game ones. The Base game ones say "including Destiny", while the Pegasus ones say "excluding Destiny". Even if you don't have the physical cards from Pegasus, many will adapt that as a house rule as it's been suggested by the designer, and many do feel it's too powerful to have it include Destiny Deck (DD).

Otherwise, that's it. The folks who appreciate base game only games will tout how the ratios of resource losses, and how Food gets hit more often will say those, amongst other reasons to go with just base game stuff when playing just base game.

I've had games where we fished out expansion crisis cards, but really did appreciate the variety of skill cards from expansions.

.

Otherwise, Pegasus and Exodus has crisis cards (and one Qcard from Pegasus) that dabbles in executions.
For Daybreak, crisis cards and skill cards dabble in Mutiny cards. Pegasus and Daybreak also should include the Treachery deck.
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Constantine Caviris
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ackmondual wrote:
psychotic33089 wrote:
I recently got the three expansions for this game and I'm curious what everyone else does. When you place the base game, do you leave the cards from the expansion games mixed in or do you play with just the cards from the base game? I looked through the skill check, destination, crisis cards, and the rest, and for the most part they seem to fit fine with the base game (there were one or two cards from Pegasus that mentioned executions, those should probably be taken out or ignored if they come up). Does it unbalance the game to mix everything in? It looks to me like if it just adds more variability. What do you do when playing the base game?
For just base game, ideally... use only the base game cards. Almost as an errata, for the skill cards.... swap in the Pegasus-style Investigative Committees (yellow/Politics cards) in place of the base game ones. The Base game ones say "including Destiny", while the Pegasus ones say "excluding Destiny". Even if you don't have the physical cards from Pegasus, many will adapt that as a house rule as it's been suggested by the designer, and many do feel it's too powerful to have it include Destiny Deck (DD).

Otherwise, that's it. The folks who appreciate base game only games will tout how the ratios of resource losses, and how Food gets hit more often will say those, amongst other reasons to go with just base game stuff when playing just base game.

I've had games where we fished out expansion crisis cards, but really did appreciate the variety of skill cards from expansions.

.

Otherwise, Pegasus and Exodus has crisis cards (and one Qcard from Pegasus) that dabbles in executions.
For Daybreak, crisis cards and skill cards dabble in Mutiny cards. Pegasus and Daybreak also should include the Treachery deck.
Thank you for posting. I wasn't sure if it would change the balance or just add variety. I'm curious what everyone else things.
 
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Victor Lesperance
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I often played a game called Arkham Horror. I got all of the expansions (a ton of them) all at once as a Christmas present. So, we just mixed it all together and played it that way several times.

My lesson learned was that every theme got diluted so much, that you didn't really feel any themes. And mechanics just plain broke down in some cases. Now, its base game plus one expansion for variety each time.

In BSG, I've added random bits of random expansions each time. I've found that some don't play well together. For example, the treachery cards of one expansion neutered the fleet board of another.

Another game just got completely ruined because I used treachery from Daybreak without a certain skill card from Daybreak to offset them (cancelling skill check abilities). For anyone interested, it turned into an infinite treachery generator where every card in the destiny deck was treachery, and half of all players' hands were treachery. The game stalled where every crisis check from that point forward failed spectacularly as 2 "hidden" cylons just openly dumped treachery each turn. Add mutiny cards, and once around the table, everyone ended up in the brig...

My next observation was that even with just one expansion added into the crisis deck, that deck was HUGE. I sleeve my cards, so that deck was too high to even not fall over. So, I shuffled and split the deck in half and set half aside until needed. We didn't even get through a fraction of the half deck. Everyone had a laugh at the end when I revealed that there was another half that they never even saw. So, I have no interest in adding all 3 expansions at once. That's a bit too much diversity.

Long story summary, from now on its base game only. And if people want a bit of spice for a given session, we pick 1 expansion only and include or exclude its sub-modules in their entireties. That offers diversity from session to session so the overall BSG experience doesn't get old. But within one session, you have greater homogeny of rules interactions so that session still maintains some internal structure.

As devil's advocate, I often GM BSG at various local conventions. My observation is that almost all veteran players that I've talked to do mash every expansion together every time. That wouldn't work for me, but obviously works for them. So, whatever works for you...

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Geoff C
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I bought the expansions specefically to add variety to all the cards, skill, crisis, characters, etc.

You need to choose one treachery deck (and if you choose daybreak that means having to include mutiny, if using pegasus (my preference) you need to drop a few characters that deal with mutiny) . I enjoy the odd execution so left those in. The new comittee cards is easy enough, do it. That just leaves a few oddballs like the build assault raptors skill cards, which just turned into repair raptors in my game.
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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Daybreak treachery has been designed to be used with CAC's. Like in the post somewhere above, we have found it does not work that well with CFB. Our solution was to add half of the Pegasus treachery in to dilute the treachery deck when playing with CFB, and it seems to be working well for us. The average value of a treachery card (for the destiny) stays about the same, but you get Dradis Contact and Bait slightly more seldom. Just consider 1's to be zeros when you make a Reckless check.

Well, while sleeved, our crisis deck does not topple over. After 150+ games the sleeves are not even slightly slippery anymore. (It goes away in a dozen games.) Of course, only about one third of it is gone through in a game to Kobol. More if there is a lot of scouting (Roslin, Boomer, Leoben).
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Constantine Caviris
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a1bert wrote:
Daybreak treachery has been designed to be used with CAC's. Like in the post somewhere above, we have found it does not work that well with CFB. Our solution was to add half of the Pegasus treachery in to dilute the treachery deck when playing with CFB, and it seems to be working well for us. The average value of a treachery card (for the destiny) stays about the same, but you get Dradis Contact and Bait slightly more seldom. Just consider 1's to be zeros when you make a Reckless check.

Well, while sleeved, our crisis deck does not topple over. After 150+ games the sleeves are not even slightly slippery anymore. (It goes away in a dozen games.) Of course, only about one third of it is gone through in a game to Kobol. More if there is a lot of scouting (Roslin, Boomer, Leoben).
I actually never meant to play with the treachery deck. I meant more along the lines of the card types that are in the base game. Mixing in the crisis cards and non treachery skill cards. Do you play with those mixed in when playing the base game?
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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The mention about treachery was just an aside, off-topic, in response to the previous post, but maybe useful for some.

When we very seldom play the base game, we play the base game, i.e. no extra cards or components. With just the base game skill cards you have a reliable source for Launch Scout, Executive Order, and Strategic Planning among others, which are useful for strategies that work in the base game.

Boomer and Roslin will also have chances to be picked because of Recon and Visions.
 
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Kwijiboe
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Quote:
Long story summary, from now on its base game only. And if people want a bit of spice for a given session, we pick 1 expansion only and include or exclude its sub-modules in their entireties. That offers diversity from session to session so the overall BSG experience doesn't get old. But within one session, you have greater homogeny of rules interactions so that session still maintains some internal structure.
This is what it really boils down to for me.

There are only so many turns/actions available in a game of Battlestar, that I prefer to play with a few strong game mechanics (base game only or 1 expansion only) rather than mix everything together and primarily experience Exodus mechanics (since Exodus sits on top of everything with its game changing Fleet Module). The other mechanics might not even be experienced, or worse, they detract from the game by introducing busted mechanics or they distract players.

To me, less is more.
 
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K
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I don't play the base game anymore, but if I were to, I would remove the expansion cards. I mean that seems almost like a trick question... if the card decks are expanded you aren't really playing the base game, whether you leave out some optional expansion modules or not
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SirHandsome wrote:
I don't play the base game anymore, but if I were to, I would remove the expansion cards. I mean that seems almost like a trick question... if the card decks are expanded you aren't really playing the base game, whether you leave out some optional expansion modules or not
Well, there are still the characters
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psychotic33089 wrote:

I actually never meant to play with the treachery deck. I meant more along the lines of the card types that are in the base game. Mixing in the crisis cards and non treachery skill cards. Do you play with those mixed in when playing the base game?
That's actually a pretty good mix. Fewer XOs, but the extra abilities in the skill deck are very nice to have. We do use treachery as well, because we also use the expansion characters (Ellen draws treachery) and some of the crises trigger a treachery draw. Additionally, the Reckless abilities on some of the new skill cards require treachery. Many games go by where the only treachery cards played come from the Destiny deck.

The Pegasus treachery cards don't alter the game as much as the Daybreak ones do. After a few games, I'm inclined to retire the Daybreak treachery cards except for mutineer games.
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