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Subject: Beginner rules questions rss

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So we've been playing some games of "Operation Icestorm" now, and found the game to be a lot of fun.

However, there are some passages of the rules that I'm somehow unable to understand. As a result, I'm a bit confused of how things are supposed to function correctly. I re-read the rules in both "Operation Icestorm" as well as in the 3rd edition rulebook, but they left me behind with a big questionmark hovering over my head...

1) AROs:
When a trooper activates and announces his first short skill, everybody who has LOF to that guy may announce an ARO. If new enemies have LOF after the trooper's first short skill but before his second one, they may also declare an ARO. So far, I get it.

1a)But what about crossing somebody's LOF? That enemy may or may not declare an ARO? So far, we assumed "no", as the trooper was not in LOF at the beginning of his activation and was out of sight again when he declared the second short skill. Is that correct?

1b) You may move and fire in any combination you wish. Move 2", fire, move 2" again (with a 4-4 movement trooper). For example, a trooper moves out of total cover into partial cover, opens fire, then redraws. WHEN do I declare the 2nd short skill? Do I start with "I move this trooper over there and then back again"?, then wait for my opponent to declare his AROs? Or do I have to announce the full order directly at the beginning of the troopers activation?

2) Face to Face Rolls
2a) The active trooper is opening fire at an opponent who fires back. The active trooper rolls 13,8,4 (target 14), the opponent rolls 5 (target 16). Does that mean the opponent is required to survive two ARM rolls (as his 5 cancels the 4, but both 13 and 8 are still successes) or does it result in a single ARM roll?

2b) The other way round. The active trooper still has the same roll as above, but his opponent now rolls a 15. As 15 is higher than every single die the active trooper has, does it cancel all of his successes? Or just one, as it is only one success against three successes?

2c) A critical roll always wins, no matter how many successes the opponent has? We played it this way so far...


3) If the lieutenant is the only miniature left alive, does he still receive his special order in addition to his regular order?

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Martin
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Perturabo wrote:
So we've been playing some games of "Operation Icestorm" now, and found the game to be a lot of fun.

However, there are some passages of the rules that I'm somehow unable to understand. As a result, I'm a bit confused of how things are supposed to function correctly. I re-read the rules in both "Operation Icestorm" as well as in the 3rd edition rulebook, but they left me behind with a big questionmark hovering over my head...


1) AROs:
When a trooper activates and announces his first short skill, everybody who has LOF to that guy may announce an ARO. If new enemies have LOF after the trooper's first short skill but before his second one, they may also declare an ARO. So far, I get it.

1a)But what about crossing somebody's LOF? That enemy may or may not declare an ARO? So far, we assumed "no", as the trooper was not in LOF at the beginning of his activation and was out of sight again when he declared the second short skill. Is that correct?

A: No, you can ARO in that situation. What you are refering to is actually a long skill called Cautious Move where you can only move your first MOV value, but if you start and end in total cover no AROs can be taken.

1b) You may move and fire in any combination you wish. Move 2", fire, move 2" again (with a 4-4 movement trooper). For example, a trooper moves out of total cover into partial cover, opens fire, then redraws. WHEN do I declare the 2nd short skill? Do I start with "I move this trooper over there and then back again"?, then wait for my opponent to declare his AROs? Or do I have to announce the full order directly at the beginning of the troopers activation?

A: You state your first short skill then wait for AROs and then your second short skill (ranged attack or whatever). This basically allows you to peak out behind cover and fire and then duck back. Also, if you get hit by ARO fire and go unconcscious you do so at the end of the move, so back behind cover - good when there's doctors around.

2) Face to Face Rolls
2a) The active trooper is opening fire at an opponent who fires back. The active trooper rolls 13,8,4 (target 14), the opponent rolls 5 (target 16). Does that mean the opponent is required to survive two ARM rolls (as his 5 cancels the 4, but both 13 and 8 are still successes) or does it result in a single ARM roll?

A: Two ARM rolls.

2b) The other way round. The active trooper still has the same roll as above, but his opponent now rolls a 15. As 15 is higher than every single die the active trooper has, does it cancel all of his successes? Or just one, as it is only one success against three successes?

A: The single higher success trumps all the other lower successes.

2c) A critical roll always wins, no matter how many successes the opponent has? We played it this way so far...

A: Yes, a Crit trumps every other roll, even if it's lower. The only exception is if both Crit in which case they both take each other out and nothing happens.


3) If the lieutenant is the only miniature left alive, does he still receive his special order in addition to his regular order?


A: Yes.


Glad to hear you're having fun. It's an amazing, but complex, game. I highly recommend the official forums and the excellent Infinity wiki which has all the rules, with explanations and FAQ info in a nice searchable format.
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Cogdiz wrote:
[q="Perturabo"][...]

1) AROs:
When a trooper activates and announces his first short skill, everybody who has LOF to that guy may announce an ARO. If new enemies have LOF after the trooper's first short skill but before his second one, they may also declare an ARO. So far, I get it.

1a)But what about crossing somebody's LOF? That enemy may or may not declare an ARO? So far, we assumed "no", as the trooper was not in LOF at the beginning of his activation and was out of sight again when he declared the second short skill. Is that correct?

A: No, you can ARO in that situation. What you are refering to is actually a long skill called Cautious Move where you can only move your first MOV value, but if you start and end in total cover no AROs can be taken.

[...]


Thanks a lot for that answer. That definitely helps.
But still, the part that actually causes me the most confusion still remains. ^^

The official rules state:
"The Reactive Player must declare AROs for all eligible troopers immediately after the Active Player declares his Entire Order or the first Short Skill of his Order (see: Order Expenditure Sequence). Troopers that fail to do so lose their ARO against that Order. If, by declaring the second Short Skill of its Order, the active trooper gives ARO to enemy troopers that did not have ARO against the first Short Skill, then those enemy troopers can declare their AROs."

The way I read that (it might be wrong?) it means that it's explicitly the activation / declaration of a (short) skill that is triggering AROs.

See a miniature stating what it wants to do: ARO.
Don't declare your ARO at specifically that point in time: lose your ARO.
Seeing a miniature that has not been visible previously when it is about to declare the second short skill: ARO.
Don't declare your ARO: lose it.

To my understanding, starting in total cover, crossing LoF, then ending the movement in total cover with one single short skill would not allow an ARO, as at the time of short skill declaration / activation no enemy miniature could draw LoF.
If, however, the trooper would move from total cover into the open, then pause to declare his second short skill before continuing his movement, all enemy miniatures with LoF to him would receive an ARO, that must be declared before the active trooper actually announces what he wants to do.

If just crossing LoF would trigger AROs, the rules should read something like "Whenever entering LoF of an opposing miniature, etc...", shouldn't they?

Sorry for the rules bickering, but that really confuses me.
Initially, we used the "Whenever entering LoF" variant, but it somehow didn't really fit well with all the emphasis on first/second short skill and when to declare AROs.
So we re-read the quick-start rules (the ones in "Operation Icestorm"), thought we had to play it as a step-by-step (which felt awkward) and became confused, then read the full rules which explained that everything happens simultaneously but emphasized the sequence of an order, and became even more confused.
 
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Martin
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Perturabo wrote:
Cogdiz wrote:
[q="Perturabo"][...]

1) AROs:
When a trooper activates and announces his first short skill, everybody who has LOF to that guy may announce an ARO. If new enemies have LOF after the trooper's first short skill but before his second one, they may also declare an ARO. So far, I get it.

1a)But what about crossing somebody's LOF? That enemy may or may not declare an ARO? So far, we assumed "no", as the trooper was not in LOF at the beginning of his activation and was out of sight again when he declared the second short skill. Is that correct?

A: No, you can ARO in that situation. What you are refering to is actually a long skill called Cautious Move where you can only move your first MOV value, but if you start and end in total cover no AROs can be taken.

[...]


Thanks a lot for that answer. That definitely helps.
But still, the part that actually causes me the most confusion still remains. ^^

The official rules state:
"The Reactive Player must declare AROs for all eligible troopers immediately after the Active Player declares his Entire Order or the first Short Skill of his Order (see: Order Expenditure Sequence). Troopers that fail to do so lose their ARO against that Order. If, by declaring the second Short Skill of its Order, the active trooper gives ARO to enemy troopers that did not have ARO against the first Short Skill, then those enemy troopers can declare their AROs."

The way I read that (it might be wrong?) it means that it's explicitly the activation / declaration of a (short) skill that is triggering AROs.


I think what might be tripping you up is that an order declaration is not simply stating "I will use a short skill to move" and then standing back, arms akimbo, waiting for AROs.

As part of the declaration you have to show where the mini is moving to and how it gets there, preferably tracing its path on the tabletop. This allows your opponent to see if there are any ARO opportunities along the minis movement path.

Take a look at the Order Expenditure Sequence and I'm sure all will be clearer.
 
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aaron pitman

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Also see caution movement. This skill allows what you are referring to. If you declare cautious movement out of Los and end your movement out of Los. Any models thaybthat gained Los during your movement do not get an aro.

But if during a regular move order you give an opponent Los they have the opportunity to declare an aro.

Infinity is made to be an active skirmish game with tons of cinematic firefights. The aro system is a huge part of this. Everyone gets a chance.
 
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