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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Some other silly newbie questions! rss

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Giacomo Fusetti
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Hi there,
I'm new to the game and I'd like to ask a few questions (again) :-) :

1. Is there a difference between an enemy engaged by the player, and an enemy engaged by engagement checks? For example, Hummerhorns. It has a high engagement cost, so I suppose it's a dangerous card... the point is, it says "after hummerhorns ENGAGES YOU deal 5 damage...". Does this mean that this happens only when the creature engages you by engagement check, but if you engage it voluntarily there's no such effect?
Same question with Forest Spider... does it gain +1 only if it is engaged by engagement checks?

2. Gandalf: it says "deal 4 damage to 1 enemy in play". Does this include enemies in the staging area?

3. Actions: I'm looking at the turn sequence chart at the end of the rulebook now. Action are allowed ONLY when it says "player actions", right? So in the combat phase I can play actions only before an enemy attacks, and then after I finished attacking the last enemies, and NEVER during actual combat... don't I?
Because at the beginning it says: "Green – Any player can take actions generally, or between the game steps stated in the rules", and all the steps are green, so it's confusing.

Thank you!
 
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Valerio Vitelli
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lexpweller wrote:
Hi there,
I'm new to the game and I'd like to ask a few questions (again) :-) :

1. Is there a difference between an enemy engaged by the player, and an enemy engaged by engagement checks? For example, Hummerhorns. It has a high engagement cost, so I suppose it's a dangerous card... the point is, it says "after hummerhorns ENGAGES YOU deal 5 damage...". Does this mean that this happens only when the creature engages you by engagement check, but if you engage it voluntarily there's no such effect?
Same question with Forest Spider... does it gain +1 only if it is engaged by engagement checks?
No, hummerhorns deals the damage no matter if it engages "naturally" for the threat or if you decide to engage them.

Quote:

2. Gandalf: it says "deal 4 damage to 1 enemy in play". Does this include enemies in the staging area?
Yes
Quote:

3. Actions: I'm looking at the turn sequence chart at the end of the rulebook now. Action are allowed ONLY when it says "player actions", right? So in the combat phase I can play actions only before an enemy attacks, and then after I finished attacking the last enemies, and NEVER during actual combat... don't I?
Because at the beginning it says: "Green – Any player can take actions generally, or between the game steps stated in the rules", and all the steps are green, so it's confusing.

Thank you!
I'm not completely sure what you mean, but there are action windows before and after EACH attacks, so after you resolve enemy 1 attack, before enemy 2 attack you have an action window.
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Jim . K
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Just to add to the reply that was given to your first question, (which is correct), it makes no difference whether the enemy engaged you, or whether you engaged the enemy (by any means) ... you are engaged/it has engaged you, are both exactly the same thing. There's something in the rules about this somewhere, but I don't have the rule book in front of me ..

Essentially, in order to avoid the Hummerhorns inflicting their instant damage, you are either going to have to work at keeping your threat down, or apply damage with a timely visit from Gandalf to remove it from the staging area (which answers your second question).

Anyone have any other way of dealing with the Hummerhorns forced action?

(You could actually sacrifice a hero by engaging it, and then bring the hero back from your discard pile with a Fortune or Fate card, btw.)


For your last question... Actions are allowed before/during/after any GREEN highlighted section. I don't think there are any exceptions to that, but I could be wrong.


regards

Jim



 
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Jan Probst
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There are also several Action Windows during each attack - the chart at the back of the book is a rough summary at best.
The general reminder I give is "imagine its an old school computer game; whenever the cursor isn't spinning due to some calculation or activity, it's probably an action window".
 
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Giacomo Fusetti
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Weltenreiter wrote:
There are also several Action Windows during each attack - the chart at the back of the book is a rough summary at best.
The general reminder I give is "imagine its an old school computer game; whenever the cursor isn't spinning due to some calculation or activity, it's probably an action window".
Ok, but then why does it mention "player actions" in the turn sequence, if actions are possible all the times?
Look at the combat phase as written on the rulebook:

6. Combat Phase
• Player actions.
• Deal 1 shadow card to each enemy.
• Next player resolves attacks made by his enemies against him, etc.
• First player resolves attacks made by enemies against him. (See page 18.)
• First player declares and resolves attacks against his enemies. (See page 20.)
• Next player declares and resolves attacks against his enemies, etc.
• Player actions.
 
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Giacomo Fusetti
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JimBGG wrote:

Anyone have any other way of dealing with the Hummerhorns forced action?
Dunhere (Spirit) can target enemies in the staging area...
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Valerio Vitelli
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JimBGG wrote:


Anyone have any other way of dealing with the Hummerhorns forced action?

(You could actually sacrifice a hero by engaging it, and then bring the hero back from your discard pile with a Fortune or Fate card, btw.)



Gimli + Citadel Plate to load up some attack power
Landroval instead of Fortune and Fate
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Valerio Vitelli
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lexpweller wrote:
Weltenreiter wrote:
There are also several Action Windows during each attack - the chart at the back of the book is a rough summary at best.
The general reminder I give is "imagine its an old school computer game; whenever the cursor isn't spinning due to some calculation or activity, it's probably an action window".
Ok, but then why does it mention "player actions" in the turn sequence, if actions are possible all the times?
Look at the combat phase as written on the rulebook:

6. Combat Phase
• Player actions.
• Deal 1 shadow card to each enemy.
• Next player resolves attacks made by his enemies against him, etc.
• First player resolves attacks made by enemies against him. (See page 18.)
• First player declares and resolves attacks against his enemies. (See page 20.)
• Next player declares and resolves attacks against his enemies, etc.
• Player actions.
Actually the order is:

6. Combat Phase
• Deal 1 shadow card to each enemy.
• Player actions.
• Next player resolves attacks made by his enemies against him, etc.
• First player resolves attacks made by enemies against him. (See page 18.)
• First player declares and resolves attacks against his enemies. (See page 20.)
• Next player declares and resolves attacks against his enemies, etc.
• Player actions.
With only the shadow assignment in red and the others in green. Basically between those to "player actions" bullet you can do any action you want
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black spark
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It is my understanding that actions may not be used in the midst of steps in the combat phase.

Resolving Enemy Attacks: "When resolving enemy attacks, the players follow these 4 steps, in order. Players may play event cards and take actions at the end of each step." - LotR Core Rulebook, page 18

For each enemy attack, actions may be used at the end of each step:
1. Choose an enemy; afterward, use player actions.
2. Declare a defender; afterward, use player actions.
3. Resolve shadow effects; afterward, use player actions. (This is the important one; actions are not used between revealing the shadow card and resolving the shadow effect.)
4. Determine combat damage; afterward use player actions.

Attacking Enemies: "To resolve an attack against an enemy, a player follows these 3 steps, in order. Players may play events event cards and take actions at the end of each step." - LotR Core Rulebook, page 20

For each attack a player makes against an enemy, actions may be used at the end of each step:
1. Declare target of attack, and declare attackers; afterward use player actions.
2. Determine attack strength; afterward use player actions.
3. Determine combat damage; afterward use player actions.


This results in:
6. Combat Phase
- Deal 1 shadow card to each enemy. (no actions)
- Player actions.
- First player resolves attacks made by enemies against him. (See page 18.) (actions at the end of each step)
- Next player resolves attacks made by his enemies against him, etc. (actions at the end of each step)
- First player declares and resolves attacks against his enemies. (See page 20.) (actions at the end of each step)
- Next player declares and resolves attacks against his enemies, etc. (actions at the end of each step)
-Player actions.
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Chris Eckes
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Great breakdown!

To clarify: you CAN use an action between applying a shadow effect and determining combat damage? So, if you declare your hero a defender with two damage on him (let's say 2DEF, 4HP) against an enemy with 2ATK, and a shadow card gives the attacking enemy +2 attack, you can play an action to heal the damage on your hero prior to that attack resolving?

If so, the result of the attack will be your hero taking two damage, but you healed him so he'll have two damage still. If not, your hero will die.

I'm curious about this as I was under the impression there was no action window between revealing and applying the shadow card and resolving combat damage.

black spark wrote:
It is my understanding that actions may not be used in the midst of steps in the combat phase.

Resolving Enemy Attacks: "When resolving enemy attacks, the players follow these 4 steps, in order. Players may play event cards and take actions at the end of each step." - LotR Core Rulebook, page 18

For each enemy attack, actions may be used at the end of each step:
1. Choose an enemy; afterward, use player actions.
2. Declare a defender; afterward, use player actions.
3. Resolve shadow effects; afterward, use player actions. (This is the important one; actions are not used between revealing the shadow card and resolving the shadow effect.)
4. Determine combat damage; afterward use player actions.

Attacking Enemies: "To resolve an attack against an enemy, a player follows these 3 steps, in order. Players may play events event cards and take actions at the end of each step." - LotR Core Rulebook, page 20

For each attack a player makes against an enemy, actions may be used at the end of each step:
1. Declare target of attack, and declare attackers; afterward use player actions.
2. Determine attack strength; afterward use player actions.
3. Determine combat damage; afterward use player actions.


This results in:
6. Combat Phase
- Deal 1 shadow card to each enemy. (no actions)
- Player actions.
- First player resolves attacks made by enemies against him. (See page 18.) (actions at the end of each step)
- Next player resolves attacks made by his enemies against him, etc. (actions at the end of each step)
- First player declares and resolves attacks against his enemies. (See page 20.) (actions at the end of each step)
- Next player declares and resolves attacks against his enemies, etc. (actions at the end of each step)
-Player actions.
 
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Nathan Huntley
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There is an action window between the resolution of the shadow card and the enemy dealing its damage.

In particular, this means that in your example, you have time to heal before the enemy kills your hero. If, on the other hand, the shadow card said "deal 2 damage to defending character" then your hero would die unless you had a suitable response such as Hasty Stroke or Gondorian Discipline.
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Jim . K
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[q="NathanH7789"]There is an action window between the resolution of the shadow card and the enemy dealing its damage.

In particular, this means that in your example, you have time to heal before the enemy kills your hero. If, on the other hand, the shadow card said "deal 2 damage to defending character" then your hero would die

Wow - I had not realised this, this is great!
 
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