Nana Pleng

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I don't understand much.

But will there be a situation like this ------ > "The wounds carry over to next missions, when you're in later mission, you'll have too many wounds that you'll see no light of hope to continue. You have to start all over. Hu ha ha ha, I'm am the insectoid boss, I like to tease you"

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Timo Multamäki
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That is possible situation; however, I like to stress the point that there is no insectoid boss player. So you'll be laughing to yourself.

It's question that you'll have to evaluate after every scenario; did I play well? Should I play the same scenario again to make it better? Or should I continue?

And yes, it will be very hard for you if you take more wounds on every scenario.

But you can also reduce wounds DURING scenarios. Just don't kill Simma (the Hero who can heal wounds) too early on.
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Ukko Kaarto
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I think the one of more interesting things about Perdition's Mouth is the "butterfly effect" of wounds piling up on heroes. And permadeath of heroes. They make every decision count and allow great "I will hold them off, run!" heroic moments possible. After you defeat the insectoid god you will remember the ones who sacrificed themselves for the common good.

I prefer my co-operative games hard. Nothing is more boring than getting a new game that doesn't offer you challenge.

That said it is your game and if you dislike the "start from the beginning" rule just houserule things differently. Maybe an overflow of magical energy kills the healer before the last mission, but that same energy unleashes a spell that heals all the other heroes so they can have a shot at the demon. Your game, your call.
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Adrian Roberts
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"Hard" is a double-edged sword. I agree that a pushover is pretty pointless, but a game that aggro's everyone all the time won't get played. It needs to be challenging but fair rather than arbitrary or random. Seeing how this feels relative to that balance will be the primary factor in my support or not. I am hopeful, but honestly need to dig deeper into the rules, watch some more videos, and see what else unfolds during the campaign. I like this as a dark contrast to something like Sword & Sorcery and Gloomhaven that I have also backed, but the counter-point is that it will need to compete with those for table time and thus need to be enjoyable for my group.
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Thibaud Dejardin
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lilbandit74 wrote:
It needs to be challenging but fair rather than arbitrary or random. Seeing how this feels relative to that balance will be the primary factor in my support or not.
There's no dice in the game. The luck factor is present, but in the form "push your luck" decisions.

The wound system is the same: you know what you have in your decks at the end of the game. Will you prefer to "try again" that scenario until you have few wounds (and maybe a treasure and a prisonner saved), or will you push over with your wounds? That's a tough decision, but the game doesn't take the decision for you.

That system reminds me some video games, where you can make a scenario again until reaching a good "rank".

You're true that "hard" is sometimes used to describe: "you need a 6 on a D6 to succeed". Yes, it is hard, but very unintresting because you can't do anything about the result. In my mind, Perdition Mouth will be the opposite: you can do everything about all your actions: nothing prevents you to use your full hand for each actions, but then you may have to do nothing and rest. Or you can take risky actions and not succeed in all of them. When you miss some action, you find yourself thinking "I should have used that card I held for later!", and that's a good feeling. When you lose, it's because you took the bad decisions. The randomness in the game only make those decisions to be different each time you play the game (which is a game, not a puzzle or a problem to resolve).
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Timo Multamäki
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Archange227 wrote:
lilbandit74 wrote:
It needs to be challenging but fair rather than arbitrary or random. Seeing how this feels relative to that balance will be the primary factor in my support or not.
There's no dice in the game. The luck factor is present, but in the form "push your luck" decisions.

The wound system is the same: you know what you have in your decks at the end of the game. Will you prefer to "try again" that scenario until you have few wounds (and maybe a treasure and a prisonner saved), or will you push over with your wounds? That's a tough decision, but the game doesn't take the decision for you.

That system reminds me some video games, where you can make a scenario again until reaching a good "rank".

You're true that "hard" is sometimes used to describe: "you need a 6 on a D6 to succeed". Yes, it is hard, but very unintresting because you can't do anything about the result. In my mind, Perdition Mouth will be the opposite: you can do everything about all your actions: nothing prevents you to use your full hand for each actions, but then you may have to do nothing and rest. Or you can take risky actions and not succeed in all of them. When you miss some action, you find yourself thinking "I should have used that card I held for later!", and that's a good feeling. When you lose, it's because you took the bad decisions. The randomness in the game only make those decisions to be different each time you play the game (which is a game, not a puzzle or a problem to resolve).
This is very well describing our development teams view and intention. Thank you. We fully agree.
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Dan
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Rancho Cordova
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For clarification, if you finish scenario 5 and decide that the three wounds you took during it are too much to continue, would you play scenario 5 again, first removing the wounds you took, like a reset of sorts?

Are you supposed to keep track of the wounds and treasures you got on just this map so you start over and play it again in the same state as you finished scenario 4?

Or do you keep the treasures and wounds, but play scenario 5 again and attempt to heal the wounds and recover ground before moving deeper into the dungeon?
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Timo Multamäki
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oddbod wrote:
For clarification, if you finish scenario 5 and decide that the three wounds you took during it are too much to continue, would you play scenario 5 again, first removing the wounds you took, like a reset of sorts?

Are you supposed to keep track of the wounds and treasures you got on just this map so you start over and play it again in the same state as you finished scenario 4?

Or do you keep the treasures and wounds, but play scenario 5 again and attempt to heal the wounds and recover ground before moving deeper into the dungeon?
You keep track of every scenario. So if you want to "rewind" you can rewind one or more scenarios and continue from that "save point" there.

Basically between every scenario you have a place where you can come back and continue from then onward with new strategies or different Hero compositions, etc

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Timo Multamäki
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Archange227 wrote:

That system reminds me some video games, where you can make a scenario again until reaching a good "rank".

You're true that "hard" is sometimes used to describe: "you need a 6 on a D6 to succeed". Yes, it is hard, but very unintresting because you can't do anything about the result. In my mind, Perdition Mouth will be the opposite: you can do everything about all your actions: nothing prevents you to use your full hand for each actions, but then you may have to do nothing and rest. Or you can take risky actions and not succeed in all of them. When you miss some action, you find yourself thinking "I should have used that card I held for later!", and that's a good feeling. When you lose, it's because you took the bad decisions. The randomness in the game only make those decisions to be different each time you play the game (which is a game, not a puzzle or a problem to resolve).
I think, btw, that this description contains a lot of information that we really should ought to push for everyones attention as it's completely true and just the differentiating points that we should likely show and explain.

It's not only the concept of what we mean with hard, but also the concept that we allow you to choose a difficulty level for the "puzzle solving" that you feel correct for your liking.
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Byron Campbell
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Santa Clarita
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I think there is a definite possibility of restarting the campaign, and I am actually very happy about this. I would prefer to play this game as a "roguelike" mode with no opportunities to replay levels for better results (if all heroes die, they are out of the campaign). The whole campaign is a sort of battle of attrition, so I think this mode of play thematically and mechanically works and makes PM unlike almost every other fantasy game out there. However, if you do not like it, there is always the option to remove permadeath and allow heroes to "reset" to their starting conditions.
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Timo Multamäki
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kittenhoarder wrote:
I think there is a definite possibility of restarting the campaign, and I am actually very happy about this. I would prefer to play this game as a "roguelike" mode with no opportunities to replay levels for better results (if all heroes die, they are out of the campaign). The whole campaign is a sort of battle of attrition, so I think this mode of play thematically and mechanically works and makes PM unlike almost every other fantasy game out there. However, if you do not like it, there is always the option to remove permadeath and allow heroes to "reset" to their starting conditions.
Indeed. There is certainly a possibility to play the whole campaign without any restart options, but I'd say that it's too hard that way.

Wouldn't you say, Byron, that you'd have failed in the campaign if you have played that way? didn't you replay some scenarios?
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Jochen Wiesner
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Solingen
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For a roguelike you would need modular, randomized boards, enemies and quests. The clue about roguelikes is that you only have a vague idea of what will await you in the next run.

Which would be a great concept for a dungeon crawler, but definitely a different game, especcially if you add some legacy element to it, changing the base on which you randomize or the character options based on the successes of former runs.
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Timo Multamäki
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The_Crimson_King wrote:
For a roguelike you would need modular, randomized boards, enemies and quests. The clue about roguelikes is that you only have a vague idea of what will await you in the next run.

Which would be a great concept for a dungeon crawler, but definitely a different game, especcially if you add some legacy element to it, changing the base on which you randomize or the character options based on the successes of former runs.
Indeed. I've done my fair share of rogue on primitive-PC-computers-at-dawn-of-time.

And Perdition's Mouth certainly isn't Rogue. But it has a more than a few similar aspects.
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