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Subject: Seriously, we're still using cheap paper money? rss

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Kyle Woods
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The game just arrived! I was super excited to get it. The box is huge and heavy and full of shiny things.
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup


However, one complaint right off the bat is that Stronghold chose to include that same detestable paper money from Power Grid.
thumbsdownthumbsdownthumbsdown

It is no secret that the old paper money was awful, so I am puzzled why Stronghold and 2F decided to ignore all that discussion and put in the same cheap crap. For the price of the game, I really wish we could have gotten something more modern in that department.

Don't get me wrong, the rest of the game looks great and I am excited to try it, but this discovery is really a fly in the ointment.angry
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David desJardins
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Most people who don't like the paper money buy their own chips or other money substitute, which they can use with every game they play, so it can much more substantial than anything that could be included in the box.
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Ray Greenley
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Eh. I'm no fan of paper money, but the game is already pretty pricey. I'd rather have the paper money and keep the cost a bit lower. Those who don't like paper money are always free to upgrade to a currency they prefer.
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Alex Churchill
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Most people who don't like the paper money buy their own chips or other money substitute, which they can use with every game they play, so it can much more substantial than anything that could be included in the box.
Huh. Really? That seems like a rather large assumption about the vast number of game players around the world. Yes, there seems to be a consensus that paper money is annoying and fiddly and cheap. But if I were going to use something else in my games of 504 (which is a really good idea), I'd use cardboard tokens from a couple of the other games on my shelf.

(Except that I'm rather averse to plundering bits out of game X in order to make game Y play better, since that leaves game X's box not containing everything that's needed to play game X (if someone were to borrow it, or we were to take it in the car without remembering we'd removed some bits).)
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Travis Dean
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Seriously, you still don't have a set of poker chips?



In all seriousness, paper money is common enough to warrant the need for a set of poker chips if you play a number of those games. For many games where there are 2, maybe 3 denominations, tokens for money is useful and works well. But in games with several denominations, such as most any game with shares, the number of tokens needed would be too cumbersome over paper money unless the game came with poker chips, which would drive the price up an extra $50-100 and the weight up significantly as well.

This last weekend, I played several games that I normally use poker chips with, but didn't have my poker chips. Power Grid and Food Chain Magnate. Used smartly, the paper money actually wasn't that bad. I'll still always choose poker chips over paper money, and there are games where paper money annoyingly sticks together, but even in these two games where the bills were brand new, we had no problems and it hardly slowed us down.
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Douglas S
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I like paper money. wow
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Russ Williams
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KRWoods1 wrote:
It is no secret that the old paper money was awful,
and
alextfish wrote:
Yes, there seems to be a consensus that paper money is annoying and fiddly and cheap.
Consensus?
You may be unconsciously assuming that everyone thinks like you do on this. Personally, I have no objection to paper money. I use the original paper money in Power Grid in my regular games of Power Grid, for example, and none of the players in our monthly group have ever expressed the strong negative feelings you're expressing about paper money.

There are also some obvious practical manufacturing and shipping advantages to making the money weigh less and take up less volume and cost less.

For games where the exact amount of a player's money is supposed to be private, a stack of paper money works better than chips or coins.

(I also find paper money to actually be more atmospheric than coins in a modern or futuristic financial/economic game, but that's a secondary concern.)
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James
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Duglis wrote:
I like paper money. wow
Yeah, I genuinely don't understand the distaste for paper money.
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UA Darth
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Get some good poker chips that can be used for all games! You don't want each individual game to spend resources and increase the cost on something like better money...
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David desJardins
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alextfish wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Most people who don't like the paper money buy their own chips or other money substitute, which they can use with every game they play, so it can much more substantial than anything that could be included in the box.
Huh. Really? That seems like a rather large assumption about the vast number of game players around the world.
I didn't say anything about the vast number of game players around the world. The vast majority of those don't care about any of this. I only referred to those people who actively dislike the paper money, to the point they would complain about it on BGG, etc. Those people have an easy and straightforward way to get exactly what they want.
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Friedemann Friese
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I LOVE paper money.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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friedemann wrote:
I LOVE paper money.


On a serious note Poker chips are great and pretty inexpensive!

Under $15 on Amazon.

If you spend $18 you can get these

Link!
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Florian Trabert
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The paper money goes very well with the retro design of the game, at least in my opinion.
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David Hammel
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KRWoods1 wrote:
It is no secret that the old paper money was awful, so I am puzzled why Stronghold and 2F decided to ignore all that discussion and put in the same cheap crap.
Because your tears are delicious.



But seriously, keeping generic money replacements around is always a good idea.
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Richard Dewsbery
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When I remarked last week that the paper money was pretty grim, one of our gaming group decided to pipe up and say not only did he like it, but that he really hated playing Power Grid with the excellent poker chips I keep in the box. Some people have no appreciation of the finer things in life.

As room in the 504 box looks to be in short supply I'm not sure whether my plan - to add plastic counters or chips for money - will work. In an ideal world I'd use the counters in Power Grid Deluxe, but I don't know if the denominations will work.
 
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Erdem Tunakan
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Yes
 
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mfl134
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RDewsbery wrote:
When I remarked last week that the paper money was pretty grim, one of our gaming group decided to pipe up and say not only did he like it, but that he really hated playing Power Grid with the excellent poker chips I keep in the box. Some people have no appreciation of the finer things in life.

As room in the 504 box looks to be in short supply I'm not sure whether my plan - to add plastic counters or chips for money - will work. In an ideal world I'd use the counters in Power Grid Deluxe, but I don't know if the denominations will work.
I just can't stand it when I have to play power grid with poker chips and hidden money rules. Seems incredibly silly to do both.
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Richard Dewsbery
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I genuinely have no idea if that was sarcasm or not
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I have metal coins that I sub for currency in most games (where the game usually uses tokens for money). I won't be doing it in 504 due to it having secrecy rules. I wouldn't use chips either for the same reason. Distinctive coins/chips just don't gel with hidden cash games.

I'm not a huge fan of paper money either. For Power Grid, my group uses plastic decks of cards with money values on the fronts and a common back that works really well. I expect we'll use it for 504 once my copy arrives.

There is one game in my collection that I will always use the paper money that came with the game: Firefly: The Game. The paper money in that game is both functional and beautiful. Unfortunately, it uses a quantum of $100, so I can't use it for 504 when I'm not playing with the owner of the plastic money decks.
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Michael Carter
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mfl134 wrote:
RDewsbery wrote:
When I remarked last week that the paper money was pretty grim, one of our gaming group decided to pipe up and say not only did he like it, but that he really hated playing Power Grid with the excellent poker chips I keep in the box. Some people have no appreciation of the finer things in life.

As room in the 504 box looks to be in short supply I'm not sure whether my plan - to add plastic counters or chips for money - will work. In an ideal world I'd use the counters in Power Grid Deluxe, but I don't know if the denominations will work.
I just can't stand it when I have to play power grid with poker chips and hidden money rules. Seems incredibly silly to do both.
I do away with hidden money and use poker chips in everything that has paper money or cardboard tokens.
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David desJardins
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What you need are poker chips with identical black edges but labeled on the interior, so no one can see what's in your stack. Along with a bunch of zero value chips so the height of your stack isn't informative either.

Or you could just say that it's fine.
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Jason Breti
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Quote:
I LOVE paper money.
I'm betting this is a reference that Mr. Friese loves to get paid, rather than any particular statement about paper money in the game.
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Martin DeOlden
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Grumsh wrote:


If you spend $18 you can get these

Link!
Perfect, just the right colors for 18xx games (just missing black). I will have to order these.
 
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Joseph Anderson
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I think that this thread clearly suggests that the paper money issue isn't an open and shut thing. there are a small number of very vocal people who can't stand it. Most don't mind it.

Personally I think tokens are best with a small economy and cards and paper money are best with secret money and larger economies. poker chips are better if the theme is casinos, otherwise they are just plain clunky.

But this fuss that people make over a reasonable component choice is ridiculous. you can pimp your game if you want but given the level of production in this game, paper money is probably the best choice.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I have no problem with (and in fact love) paper money when it looks like this:



But the mono-colour paper money that comes with most games (including 504 unfortunately) just screams to be replaced.
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