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Subject: What do you do when you know the outcome of a game before the end? rss

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Mark B
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There is person in my game group, who will remain anonymous, who will interrupt the final round or two of a game because he has information that allows him to know the outcome, so he just tells everyone who will win and starts to pack up the game. I find this unsatisfying because usually most of the other players do not know, and everyone is still enjoying the game. The person who was going to win doesn't really get to finish the game either. Is there etiquette the you follow when this happens to you.

Similarly, this same person will declare if a person can or cannot make it through the dungeon during a game of Welcome to the Dungeon. Although this is super short game, this behavior takes half the fun out of the game for me. I really like to flip each card to see if the person left to go through the dungeon makes it--why not just let the think they have a chance at let it play out the end?
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Re: What do you do when you know the outcome of a came before the end?
Mark B wrote:
There is person in my game group, who will remain anonymous, who will interrupt the final round or two of a game because he has information that allows him to know the outcome, so he just tells everyone who will win and starts to pack up the game. I find this unsatisfying because usually most of the other players do not know, and everyone is still enjoying the game. The person who was going to win doesn't really get to finish the game either. Is there etiquette the you follow when this happens to you.

Similarly, this same person will declare if a person can or cannot make it through the dungeon during a game of Welcome to the Dungeon. Although this is super short game, this behavior takes half the fun out of the game for me. I really like to flip each card to see if the person left to go through the dungeon makes it--why not just let the think they have a chance at let it play out the end?
Tasers are wonderful inventions. When they start to speak about who the winner is, Taser them until they stop speaking, and then calmly and happily finish the game.

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Marco DeLaurentis
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Re: What do you do when you know the outcome of a came before the end?
Mark B wrote:
There is person in my game group, who will remain anonymous, who will interrupt the final round or two of a game because he has information that allows him to know the outcome, so he just tells everyone who will win and starts to pack up the game. I find this unsatisfying because usually most of the other players do not know, and everyone is still enjoying the game. The person who was going to win doesn't really get to finish the game either. Is there etiquette the you follow when this happens to you.

Similarly, this same person will declare if a person can or cannot make it through the dungeon during a game of Welcome to the Dungeon. Although this is super short game, this behavior takes half the fun out of the game for me. I really like to flip each card to see if the person left to go through the dungeon makes it--why not just let the think they have a chance at let it play out the end?
Does the rest of the group agree with you or do they side with them? If the rest of the group likes it, and sides with him, find another group.

If the group agrees with you, have you talked to him about it? Tell him the group doesn't appriciate this sort of stuff and to knock it off or game else where. He either changes (problem solved) or doesn't. If he doesn't, game without him.

You can be nice about it. Sit him down and calmly discuss it with him. Maybe he doesn't realize that what he's doing is annoying everyone.
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Ollie Hunt
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Board games aren't just about winning. They're about social interaction, discovery, story...

So what if you know the winner? Who's going to come second? How close can they get? Who's going to come last? What can you learn about the end of the game that helps you in later games that come down to the wire?
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Jerbear
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I think it depends on the game and who is playing. I play a lot of Magic and we often concede a game when you don't have a chance of coming back. Sometimes a win may not be possible, but there is nothing I can do or draw that can save me. In a tournament this can be to your advantage since you have to win 2 of 3 and you may need that time to win the remaining games.

Now playing a multiplayer game at home with friends this may be very different. Unless the game has perfect info and it is available to everyone than you can't possibly know how things are going to go. Dice rolls can go against you and so on.

But time can also be a factor. Let's say you are playing a longer game that takes a couple hours. Things have gone a little long and someone has an overwhelming advantage. You have a hour left of play time for the night and this game is going to take another 30 min. If everyone concedes to the leader you can get another short game in. In that case I might be happy to end the game so we can get another in before the evening is over.

I think in all cases you have to ask permission and to pick up the game before others finish is certainly rude. But to suggest that the game is pretty much over and can we move on to another game is fine as long as the other players agree.
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maf man
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I'd change it up, tell everyone to stop and now play it out to prove him wrong
 
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Jan Probst
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"gg" is for Starcraft. (I have nothing against Starcraft, it's common background TV during our sessions)
 
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Pete Goch
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Mark B wrote:
There is person in my game group, who will remain anonymous, who will interrupt the final round or two of a game because he has information that allows him to know the outcome, so he just tells everyone who will win and starts to pack up the game.

Does he actually know the outcome? Can he demonstrate it? Do you believe him? How about the rest of the group?


Quote:
I find this unsatisfying because usually most of the other players do not know, and everyone is still enjoying the game. The person who was going to win doesn't really get to finish the game either.

Why is it unsatisfying if you already know exactly how the game will play out? What satisfaction is there in going through the motions of something that has already been determined?

Or is it that you don't actually accept this person's determination and would rather play it out to see if he's right or not?
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David Hammel
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Weltenreiter wrote:
"gg" is for Starcraft. (I have nothing against Starcraft, it's common background TV during our sessions)
GG did not originate in StarCraft.

There are times when we'll finish a game if there is an obvious leader but only if the game has gone over long or we're running short on time.
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Jerbear
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I don't think he was implying that GG's origin is in Starcraft, but it is a commonly used expression in that type of game.

Interesting to note that in games like Starcraft it is considered rude to actually play out the whole game. Once you you have proven that the game is over to continue until the last building is destroyed is done only to waste your opponents time and is annoying.
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Jan Probst
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TheGreatHamEl wrote:
GG did not originate in StarCraft.
Err, I didn't claim it did?

The thing it is jargon for ("I give up, you win") as overwhelmingly main (to the point of exclusive) way matches are ever ended is a pretty big thing in Starcraft though (and possibly other gamess with less visibility), and it's not a habit I feel needs to be brought over to boardgames.
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Jan Probst
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Syvanis wrote:
Once you you have proven that the game is over to continue until the last building is destroyed is done only to waste your opponents time and is annoying.
Probably because Starcraft-as-spectator-sport is a thing, and mopping up is boring.

Edit: conversely, boardgames (except chess I guess) are overwhelmingly not spectator sports, so I don't give a damn about entertaining whatever peanut gallery may already be done at their table and clustering around ours. I'm here to play, not win.
 
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If they're right, and can demonstrate why in short order, I'd rather end it and play something else. Unless it's the first time I've played, in which case it's helpful for me to experience the end game.
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Beau Bocephus Blasterfire
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It depends on how the group is feeling. There is no sense in grinding out a game to an end, just for the sake of finishing a game if it is a foregone conclusion. At the same time though, if there is still a tiny plausible chance that things can change, it really should be played out. Time is probably the most precious commodity in my house and wasting it is a sin. Since the primary purpose of playing a game is for entertainment, as long as it continues to serve its purpose game on. If it becomes a chore, move on.
 
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Jan Probst
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curtc wrote:
If they're right, and can demonstrate why in short order, I'd rather end it and play something else. Unless it's the first time I've played, in which case it's helpful for me to experience the end game.
Probably also depends on the kind of games. If you're playing sprawling evening-filling ameritrashy "experience games", a second game wasn't on the agenda anyway, so cutting the thing short is kind of against the point.
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Pete Goch
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Weltenreiter wrote:
curtc wrote:
If they're right, and can demonstrate why in short order, I'd rather end it and play something else. Unless it's the first time I've played, in which case it's helpful for me to experience the end game.
Probably also depends on the kind of games. If you're playing sprawling evening-filling ameritrashy "experience games", a second game wasn't on the agenda anyway, so cutting the thing short is kind of against the point.
Most games of that description won't allow you to demonstrate that one player or another has already won. If there are the proverbial buckets o dice and or card driven events there's too much random wait and see what happens to be able to prove anything one way or another.
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Steve B
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Well thats pretty much because you participate in game groups. There is a huge community of BGGers who refuse to take part in "game groups". Every complaint on BGG is about their "game group". Like "unhygienic game group members" or "what to do about game group members who use their cell phone". You should just turn to the much better, more statisfying boardgame world of playing solely 2 player games with your wife/other half. Join Rahdo, me, and thousands of others, who have a MUCH better time than playing with a "game group". Game groups are a terrible thing.
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J C Lawrence
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Grumsh wrote:
Tasers are wonderful inventions. When they start to speak about who the winner is, Taser them until they stop speaking, and then calmly and happily finish the game.
The game has already finished: the result has been determined.

I also suggest thanking him instead, as he's providing a useful service (if he is in fact correct).
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Mike
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I think a good general rule is no player is entitled to take unilateral action. If one player thinks the game has reached the point of inevitability, then he should suggest ending the game. But it's up to the group as a whole to decide if they want to end it or play on.

Personally, I generally favor playing on. Let's say "Bob" is in the lead and it's clear none of us, individually or collectively, is going to be able to catch up with Bob before he crosses the finish line. We could arguably just declare Bob the winner and end the game. But why do that? Bob's earned his victory so let him play it out and actually cross that finish line.
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Jerbear
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Weltenreiter wrote:
Syvanis wrote:
Once you you have proven that the game is over to continue until the last building is destroyed is done only to waste your opponents time and is annoying.
Probably because Starcraft-as-spectator-sport is a thing, and mopping up is boring.

Edit: conversely, boardgames (except chess I guess) are overwhelmingly not spectator sports, so I don't give a damn about entertaining whatever peanut gallery may already be done at their table and clustering around ours. I'm here to play, not win.
This was true long before watching others play was a thing. It really comes down to your opponent has proven you are beaten. At that point you should concede. If a person has a chance to win such as an expo somewhere else on the map, I don't mind if they try.

If I have destroyed your army and am in your base you can't come back, it won't happen. Often annoying players will do things like run one drone out and build random worthless buildings around the map so you have to search and kill them. Or in the case of Terran take your flying buildings and put them in a corner of a map where only a flying unit can attack them. Often they will do this and then walk away from the game just to waste your time.

This sort of thing happened in Warcraft 3 - 15 years ago and even is the original starcraft before that. Sore losers want to troll. And a competitive player you have to play it out searching for those buildings in order to gain the win.

Starcraft has a nice feature that if the main base is destroyed after a couple minutes all of your buildings are revealed on the map to prevent this type of thing. Though it won't work on the flying buildings for the Terran.

Though all of this doesn't really apply to boardgames. Since you would be playing face to face and a "friend" isn't likely to do things just to be annoying.
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Mike
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robininni wrote:
Clearly this guy has no time for inefficiency and playing a game is a means to an end. He sees the waste of going through hopeless motions that won't change an already determined outcome. His annoying behavior is a gift if viewed through the right lens. He'd probably make a good CEO. Now, for gaming with him, you need to focus on only playing games with hidden end game scoring. This will stop his 'aptitude' from hurting game time.
I have a hard time seeing this viewpoint. If playing out the end of a game is pointless, then how is starting the game at all meaningful? It's not like the world will be affected by who wins this game of Catan. Regardless of who wins, we're just going to pick up the pieces and put them back in the box.

The only point of playing a game is to have fun within a group of people. There's no point to playing a game other than to play it. So how can you play a game more efficiently by ending it quicker?
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Pete Goch
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MK99 wrote:
I have a hard time seeing this viewpoint. If playing out the end of a game is pointless, then how is starting the game at all meaningful?
Playing out the end of a game is only pointless if you can demonstrate that the outcome is inevitable. You can't demonstrate the outcome of a game that has just started is inevitable unless that game has been solved.
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Bah, I know how this thread will end. A lot of people will give interesting opinions and the OP might try something to improve his situation.

Let's close this thread now.
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bradelli wrote:
Well thats pretty much because you participate in game groups. There is a huge community of BGGers who refuse to take part in "game groups". Every complaint on BGG is about their "game group". Like "unhygienic game group members" or "what to do about game group members who use their cell phone". You should just turn to the much better, more statisfying boardgame world of playing solely 2 player games with your wife/other half. Join Rahdo, me, and thousands of others, who have a MUCH better time than playing with a "game group". Game groups are a terrible thing.
To some this is true. but as with most things, what is good for some, isn't good for all. I do not have a significant other to do this with, and have a group of 4 to 6 that I game with regularly that I actually get along with and tend not to have issues with. Some times there has been dudes to come along, but they no longer come by.
 
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Pete Goch
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Mike_Bonn wrote:
Bah, I know how this thread will end. A lot of people will give interesting opinions and the OP might try something to improve his situation.

Let's close this thread now.
Will he or won't he? What are the opinions? Which ones are interesting?

Sounds to me like you don't actually know the outcome of this thread...


At the beginning of a game I could say, "we'll all do a bunch of stuff throughout the course of the game and one (or more if ties are possible) of us will be the winner". What I've said is true but it really hasn't determined the outcome.
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