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Subject: Return to Hoth - Heroes Preview rss

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Nick Vance
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Full preview link with lots of details.

Hero Cards for Campaign



Lots of details on skill cards (the ones purchased with experience points on the link above).

Skirmish Cards







Other details on skills, etc in the main article.

With the speed they're putting out these previews, I'm thinking we have a good chance to see Return to Hoth by Christmas in the US.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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We'd better!

-shnar
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Nick Vance
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What do the rules lawyers say around here for Verena Talos' Close Quarters' attack, with respect to surges. (Specifically her Skirmish card here.) Do you use your own surges or the defender's surge powers? (EG, if you Close Quarters a Royal Guard, can you stun?)

I think you use the defender's surge powers, but I'm not 100% sure. If you use the defender's then you couldn't use your Knife attack right?
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Mr Suitcase
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Nice grammar error on the Loku card.
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Phil B.
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You only adapt the Attack Type (Melee or Range) and the Attack Pool (Attack Dice) from the Defender. In case of the Royal Guard you would attack with Red Yellow Melee but with Surge Abilities printed on Elsa's Card.
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Jacob Gowans
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mrsuitcase wrote:
Nice grammar error on the Loku card.


I don't see it.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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nickv2002 wrote:
What do the rules lawyers say around here for Verena Talos' Close Quarters' attack, with respect to surges. (Specifically her Skirmish card here.) Do you use your own surges or the defender's surge powers? (EG, if you Close Quarters a Royal Guard, can you stun?)

I think you use the defender's surge powers, but I'm not 100% sure. If you use the defender's then you couldn't use your Knife attack right?


There should be a note about this in the rulebook. You don't get to use any abilities, including surge abilities, of the figure. However, its abilities still might apply, they are just controlled by the owner. For example, if you use it on a figure with Arsenal/Epic Arsenal (the abilities that let you choose which dice form your pool), then the owner of the Arsenal figure chooses the dice pool that Verena rolls.

mrsuitcase wrote:
Nice grammar error on the Loku card.

Where?
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Cameron Lawrence
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Seeking clarification re Loku's 'Set Your Sights'.
Quote:
"2S: Use at start or end of your activation . . ."

Luko can only do this once, correct?
If I spend the 2 surge to place a focus token, (strain permitting) I couldn't do it a second time because it is no longer 'at the start of the activation', similarly I couldn't only place one focus token at the end of activation once, because once performed it is the end of turn.

Great ability, really looking forward to class deck for Loku.
 
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Teth Adam
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nickv2002 wrote:
What do the rules lawyers say around here for Verena Talos' Close Quarters' attack, with respect to surges. (Specifically her Skirmish card here.) Do you use your own surges or the defender's surge powers? (EG, if you Close Quarters a Royal Guard, can you stun?)

I think you use the defender's surge powers, but I'm not 100% sure. If you use the defender's then you couldn't use your Knife attack right?


The relevant part of the ability reads:
"....perform an attack using that figure's attack type and attack pool. This attack gains:..."

So you get to attack using either a melee or ranged attack type and the dice associated with that weapon's pool - which would be awesome if Weiss, AT-ST, or Boba - any choose your dice pool figure - were defeated in close quarters by her (Almost never the point of a mission - but fun nonetheless).

You don't get the actual use of that weapon or any of the surge abilities. I look at this as a partial upgrade to Biv's Up Close and Personal in that his initial melee is meh and typically takes out the enemy leaving him with 2 spent strain and a gun rearing to fire - Now you can land that attack and if you succeed, you can attempt to take out a second enemy - plus in a crowd you could have this trigger twice with 2 attack actions or during a command (from Gideon) action!

At first I was meh on these heroes, now looking at the synergy - they're not so bad.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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DrClaw wrote:
Seeking clarification re Loku's 'Set Your Sights'.
Quote:
"2S: Use at start or end of your activation . . ."

Luko can only do this once, correct?
If I spend the 2 surge to place a focus token, (strain permitting) I couldn't do it a second time because it is no longer 'at the start of the activation', similarly I couldn't only place one focus token at the end of activation once, because once performed it is the end of turn.

Great ability, really looking forward to class deck for Loku.


It can be used once at the start and once at the end of your turn, but not for the reasons you mentioned.

It actually still is the start of your activation after you have used the ability. You could activate another start of action ability if you had one. However, each ability can only be used once per timing instance due to the following rule:

RRG - Abilities wrote:
• If an ability is “used,” it can be triggered multiple times
each round, but it can only be triggered once per timing instance.
For example, an ability that says, “Use while attacking to apply
+1 damage to the attack results,” can only be triggered once during
each attack.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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necksnappingadam wrote:
So you get to attack using either a melee or ranged attack type and the dice associated with that weapon's pool - which would be awesome if Weiss, AT-ST, or Boba - any choose your dice pool figure - were defeated in close quarters by her (Almost never the point of a mission - but fun nonetheless).

Of those, only General Weiss is a choose your pool figure. Perhaps you meant IG-88 instead of Boba? I'm not sure which figure you meant instead of the AT-ST...

And note that you definitely do not want to use Close Quarters when defeating choose your pool figures with Arsenal/Epic Arsenal like General Weiss and IG-88. As I said earlier, when defeating such figures, the controller of the figure (i.e., Verena's opponent) chooses the pool. Thus, it's perfectly valid for the opponent to give Verena all red dice to make a ranged attack (red dice have no Accuracy). This makes it impossible to hit the figure in Skirmish (without a Command card to add Accuracy), and she'll only be able to hit a figure within 2 spaces in Campaign (and only then if she rolls the surge side of one of the red dice, of which there is only one).
 
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Clipper wrote:
Of those, only General Weiss is a choose your pool figure. Perhaps you meant IG-88 instead of Boba? I'm not sure which figure you meant instead of the AT-ST...

IG-88 - I don't have all my cards in front of me.

Clipper wrote:
And note that you definitely do not want to use Close Quarters when defeating choose your pool figures with Arsenal/Epic Arsenal like General Weiss and IG-88. As I said earlier, when defeating such figures, the controller of the figure (i.e., Verena's opponent) chooses the pool.


To my knowledge this is a new concept in this game. I don't see where a ruling on this ability has any prior precedent. Furthermore, this expansion is still unreleased and any speculation as to how this would pair up is speculative at best at this point. If you are either the GD or RD for this game, then we can take your answer as final - if not let's just agree this could go either way and wait for the eventual errata.

Clipper wrote:
Thus, it's perfectly valid for the opponent to give Verena all red dice to make a ranged attack (red dice have no Accuracy).


I'm pretty certain Weiss "pick a die - dice pools" require that you can only choose a max of 3 die; so you'd add a yellow for a 2/3 chance of a heavy hit from Verena - that is unless the rule allows you to use 3 of any 1 color...
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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necksnappingadam wrote:
To my knowledge this is a new concept in this game. I don't see where a ruling on this ability has any prior precedent. Furthermore, this expansion is still unreleased and any speculation as to how this would pair up is speculative at best at this point. If you are either the GD or RD for this game, then we can take your answer as final - if not let's just agree this could go either way and wait for the eventual errata.

I'll admit this is something that should be covered in the rules so the answer is clear. I think I'm safe in saying this will be the case.

Quote:
I'm pretty certain Weiss "pick a die - dice pools" require that you can only choose a max of 3 die; so you'd add a yellow for a 2/3 chance of a heavy hit from Verena - that is unless the rule allows you to use 3 of any 1 color...

Oops, I forgot that part of Epic Arsenal (max 2 of each colour). Thanks for pointing it out. Indeed, that does make it a lot harder to try to force a miss.
 
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simon rorke
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Is it just me or does Verena look weird? Almost like the artwork is completely different from that of the artwork on the box. She doesn't really look like the Feisty Elsa I was expecting.
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Phil Triest
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Clipper wrote:
nickv2002 wrote:
What do the rules lawyers say around here for Verena Talos' Close Quarters' attack, with respect to surges. (Specifically her Skirmish card here.) Do you use your own surges or the defender's surge powers? (EG, if you Close Quarters a Royal Guard, can you stun?)

I think you use the defender's surge powers, but I'm not 100% sure. If you use the defender's then you couldn't use your Knife attack right?


There should be a note about this in the rulebook. You don't get to use any abilities, including surge abilities, of the figure. However, its abilities still might apply, they are just controlled by the owner. For example, if you use it on a figure with Arsenal/Epic Arsenal (the abilities that let you choose which dice form your pool), then the owner of the Arsenal figure chooses the dice pool that Verena rolls.

mrsuitcase wrote:
Nice grammar error on the Loku card.

Where?


I concur. You get the dice pool and attack type. Still a character I really like though!
 
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John Fanjoy
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I think I remember noticing a typo/grammar error on one of the cards when I read the article yesterday, but I don't see it today. Maybe they updated the card images?
 
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CitizenFry wrote:
I think I remember noticing a typo/grammar error on one of the cards when I read the article yesterday, but I don't see it today. Maybe they updated the card images?


"While you or a friendly figure is attacking a figure..."

Should be "are attacking a figure"

I'm 95% it should be "are"; but, I'm not an English major.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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mrsuitcase wrote:
CitizenFry wrote:
I think I remember noticing a typo/grammar error on one of the cards when I read the article yesterday, but I don't see it today. Maybe they updated the card images?


"While you or a friendly figure is attacking a figure..."

Should be "are attacking a figure"

I'm 95% it should be "are"; but, I'm not an English major.


I think the usage used has become acceptable in modern English. The use of 'are' would probably read a little better, but I think it's not an error to use the shown wording. While you are or a friendly figure is..." Is probably the usage best matching formal English, but it also sounds kind of archaic.
 
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mrsuitcase wrote:
CitizenFry wrote:
I think I remember noticing a typo/grammar error on one of the cards when I read the article yesterday, but I don't see it today. Maybe they updated the card images?


"While you or a friendly figure is attacking a figure..."

Should be "are attacking a figure"

I'm 95% it should be "are"; but, I'm not an English major.


I got the Internet - "is" is the proper use; subject-verb agreement:

Quote:
Two singular subjects connected by or, either/or, or neither/nor require a singular verb.

Examples:
My aunt or my uncle is arriving by train today.
Neither Juan nor Carmen is available.
Either Kiana or Casey is helping today with stage decorations.


http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectVerbAgree.asp
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Sheldon Morris
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mrsuitcase wrote:
"While you or a friendly figure is attacking a figure..."

Should be "are attacking a figure"

I'm 95% it should be "are"; but, I'm not an English major.

The problem rests with the word 'are'. In saying, "while you are attacking", 'are' is singular and speaking in the 2nd person. But it is in the plural if used in the 3rd person-like sense such as "friendly figures are attacking".

Therefore, saying "... or a friendly figure are attacking..." would make 'are' plural and not sound right next to the singular 'figure'.

Gotta' love English.*sarcasm*
 
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Mr Suitcase
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Hugin wrote:
mrsuitcase wrote:
"While you or a friendly figure is attacking a figure..."

Should be "are attacking a figure"

I'm 95% it should be "are"; but, I'm not an English major.

The problem rests with the word 'are'. In saying, "while you are attacking", 'are' is singular and speaking in the 2nd person. But it is in the plural if used in the 3rd person-like sense such as "friendly figures are attacking".

Therefore, saying "... or a friendly figure are attacking..." would make 'are' plural and not sound right next to the singular 'figure'.

Gotta' love English.*sarcasm*


This is what I was pointing out. Not the "plural" sense as pointed out by someone else, but the fact that "While you are attacking" sounds proper, "While you is attacking" is does not.
 
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Ryan Stripling
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When you have two subjects that are separated by "or," the verb agrees with the second one (the one closest to the verb).
Thus:
My brother or my cousins are coming by to pick up the game.
My cousins or my brother is coming by to pick up the game.

Yay grammar!

-ryanjamal
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ryanjamal wrote:
When you have two subjects that are separated by "or," the verb agrees with the second one (the one closest to the verb).
Thus:
My brother or my cousins are coming by to pick up the game.
My cousins or my brother is coming by to pick up the game.

Yay grammar!

-ryanjamal

Exactly. The card doesn't say "While you are attacking...", it says, "While you or a friendly figure is attacking". Since the 'closest'/last subject is 3rd person singular, the verbs must match accordingly.
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If we were pirates it would make life easier.

"While you or a friendly figure be attackin'"
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John Fanjoy
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In any case, that wasn't the sort of error I remember noticing. What I thought I noticed was something like "while you attacking..."
 
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