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Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » Rules

Subject: Bloodthirsty Clarification rss

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Silent H
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After scouring the threads and rule book, I can't figure this out -

With Bloodthirsty, it states that the lion gains a token whenever he deals damage. Does this mean damage to armor and brain as well or only damage that makes it through to light/heavy/severe hits on the body?

Thanks for any help here.
 
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Kyle Currie
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If it says "any damage," then brain damage or physical damage would both count.

The most important thing here is to remember that "damage" means ANY damage (to armor or injuries to the player). So did you lose armor points? Damage. Did you take a light or heavy injury? Damage. Did you suffer a severe injury? Damage. Did you lose Insanity due to an Intimidate attack? Damage.
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Robert Teves II
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I don't believe it triggers on brain damage. It says damage, not brain damage, which is very much its own thing. Bloodthirst has a certain physicality to it - the lion getting more ravenous the more jacked up you are - so I don't think it cares about your mental state.
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Silent H
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Thank you for following up. This makes sense.

I was wondering because of the definition of "armor" in the glossary, stating damage is negated, but this probably just means negated to the body parts, not negated altogether...

 
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Damien M
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The glossary is not worded properly. Damage that gets reduced by armor is still damage.
 
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Phoenix Bird
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Well Brain Damage is a kind of damage. And Bloodthirsty says “Damage for any reason.” It doesn’t say damage for specific reasons or damage for some reasons it says any reason.

Phoenix
 
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Robert Teves II
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I believe "for any reason" means to say not just attack profiles. That is, it will include Grab, terrain effects, anything.

Brain damage is a specific term, which is not being referenced here.
 
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Eric Pearson
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I have assumed physical damage... I'm just not clear whether to place a token for each hit or just once regardless of the amount of damage inflicted. Eg lion hits bob twice for damage with basic attack, is that one or two tokens.

Eric
 
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Robert Teves II
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ericp23 wrote:
I have assumed physical damage... I'm just not clear whether to place a token for each hit or just once regardless of the amount of damage inflicted. Eg lion hits bob twice for damage with basic attack, is that one or two tokens.

Eric
Just one. Think about how triggers on attack profiles work. "After damage: Bleed 1" gives one bleed token if any damage was dealt during the attack, regardless of how much damage over however many hits. Like that, at the end of it, it just makes a singular check for damage.
 
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Nerds call me
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I don't have the card with me but doesn't it say something to the effect that when a survivor suffers any damage, add 1 token to Bloodthirsty? I don't think the Lion has to damage you per se; you could add a token due to terrain effects, adjacent seizures, etc. Or am I not remembering this card correctly?

Edit: Nevermind, Robert already hit on this. Carry on.
 
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Phoenix Bird
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“When a survivor suffers damage for any reason, place 1 token on Bloodthirsty.”

ANY reason. Not damage to particular locations. Not damage of a particular type. Not damage caused by the Lion. Not a set number of times. ANY.

Each attack is separate. Two attacks that both hit are two separate instances of damage. Two tokens on Bloodthirsty.

You can’t spend one survival to dodge two hits. You can’t use block to negate two hits. They are separate instances.

Bloodthirsty is a Mood that does not have an attack profile. Ergo it cannot have a Trigger or an Attack Effect so that is not a relevant example. Bloodthirsty does not say ‘If a survivor suffered damage this turn put a counter on it.’ Surely if it worked your way it would.

Phoenix
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Eric Pearson
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Based on the responses, I'm going to "rule of death" this one for the most part. I consider damage of any type referring to collision etc, not brain damage. I plan to place a token for each non-brain damage I take. In the basic lion attack example that would be two tokens.

I looked at the intro example for the enraged mood card and the book said specifically not brain damage yet it was not indicated specifically on the card.

Thanks for the quick replies!
 
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Corporal Joe Bauers
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Page 29
"This does not include brain damage."

Wow, who sits on information like that?

Blows everyone out of the water casually on his way out.
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Eric Pearson
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This was not my intent... As it is still not crystal clear. Enraged refers to +1 damage token, while bloodthirsty refers to damage for any reason.
 
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Corporal Joe Bauers
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Ah, whoops, you're right, it is not as clear as I thought.
 
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Robert Piechocki
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I ran into a question with it myself...

Does it gain a token PER DAMAGE or PER DAMAGE CAUSING EVENT or PER DAMAGE WITHIN A LONGER DAMAGE CAUSING EVENT.

i.e. AI card has the Lion swings three times for 2 damage a piece with all connecting...

Is that 6 tokens for the card...
Is that 3 tokens for the card...
Is it 1 token for the card...?

[Assuming infinite armor so that none is futzed by "reduce to 1 once it's into severe injuries]

Heck and in the 6 hypothetical assuming that's the most accurate case - would it pause in the middle of the flow to trigger for having 3 (twice!) or would it finish the flow before triggering once?
 
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Eric Pearson
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Regarding the tokens triggering, the flow says specifically "at the start of the monster turn" therefore I don't see how this could trigger more than once per monster turn.
 
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Robert Piechocki
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Oh shit, I'd missed that. I made it far more lethal than it should've been, hah...

That ended up wiping Settlement #2 in my error. That would've been far more manageable, oops...
 
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Silent H
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I now believe that if the card had said -

"When a survivor suffers injury for any reason, place 1 token on Bloodthirsty", then it would have meant only the damage that got through armor.

Those L/H boxes are specifically called injuries in the rule book. "Damage" happens regardless of whether or not an injury was caused.
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Phoenix Bird
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Symmetrical Docking wrote:
Page 29
"This does not include brain damage."
Allow me to quote the whole thing for you.

“Enraged gives the White Lion a +1 damage token, which increases all damage dealt from attack profiles by 1. This does not include brain damage.”

Nobody here is arguing about whether +1 damage tokens affect brain damage. No one is discussing the Mood Enraged.

Bloodthirsty does not use +1 Damage Tokens and does not have an attack profile. Have you ever seen brain damage in an attack profile?

Let’s look at a similar card. Embrace the Pain, the Butcher Mood.

“When the Butcher is wounded, place 1 token on this card.”

Say I hit three times and I wound three times in one attack. By my logic you put three tokens on the card. By other people’s logic you would only put one token on.

Phoenix
 
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Robert Teves II
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So, yeah, if you dial back how smug you sound in 90% of the posts you make, that would be great.

Phoenix_Bird wrote:
Symmetrical Docking wrote:
Page 29
"This does not include brain damage."
Allow me to quote the whole thing for you.

[insert bunch of unnecessary condescension]
The error was already caught. Move along.

Phoenix_Bird wrote:
Let’s look at a similar card. Embrace the Pain, the Butcher Mood.

“When the Butcher is wounded, place 1 token on this card.”

Say I hit three times and I wound three times in one attack. By my logic you put three tokens on the card. By other people’s logic you would only put one token on.
Yes, and no.

Yes, it very clearly states per wound, and would trigger as each wound as caused.

No, do not put words in other peoples' mouths.
 
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Brendan Concannon
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Another angle to the rule:
Quote:

I don't believe it triggers on brain damage. It says damage, not brain damage, which is very much its own thing.
Correct. The glossary actually has Brain Damage and Damage (Condition) separately defined.

"When a survivor suffers damage for any reason, add a token..."

If the card was triggered by brain damage it would need to say:
"When a survivor suffers any kind of damage..." in order for both brain damage and damage to trigger.





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Phoenix Bird
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I agree that Brain Damage is a special category of damage. Like Event Damage. Both of which use the word damage and cause injury boxes to be crossed off. You could have called Brain Damage: Mental Trauma, Psychological Assault, Psychic Fatigue but instead the choice was made to use the word Damage.

The problem is the only definition of damage is:

P215
“A hit damages a survivor if it removes armour points or causes an injury.”

This doesn’t actually define damage does it? It only tells us when a hit damages.

Is brain damage reducing armour points?

P71
“Treat insanity as armour points for the Brain Location…”

So when I am removing insanity (armour points) am I suffering damage?
The brain also has a hit location

P71
“Reduce Insanity the way you would armour, then fill the 1 brain injury box, and finally make rolls on the Brain Trauma table.”

Brain Damage is looking pretty damagey to me.

Brain Damage doesn’t (usually) come from a hit. A hit is something that originates in an attack profile. P217

So what do we have for that situation?

P71
Damage Outside of Attack Actions
“Damage Dealt outside of an attack profile is resolved normally, but is not modified by the monster’s attributes or tokens.”

So if it is normal to put a counter on Bloodthirsty if you suffer damage to the waist location surely it is normal to put a counter on Bloodthirsty if you suffer damage to the brain location.

I’m happy for people to count or discount brain damage as they see fit.

As I think Brain Damage is Damage Outside of an Attack Action I include it like Grab or Terrain Damage but there is certainly a need to consult the FAQ when it arrives.

Phoenix
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