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The Horus Heresy: Betrayal at Calth» Forums » General

Subject: Sold on the minis, on the fence about gameplay - anyone played yet? rss

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James Hébert
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From what I've seen and read, the total package looks terrific. No question about that.

But the gameplay is key (talking about the disappointment known as DreadFleet), and replayability also matters when the pricetag is higher than the norm.

I've come across two online recounts of in-store gameplay that make the game sound good... both leave me with a "good" feeling, not a "great" gotta-have feeling, or "great" wanna-keep-playing feeling.

Has anyone found a more in-depth review, or had a more in-depth experience they can share?

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Dave Langdon
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There's some stuff on Bols and Dakka about it.
 
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Ron D
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Are people actually buying this for the gameplay? As far as I could tell, this was a thinly-veiled 30K Horus Heresy starter set and/or big box of MkIV armor for your 40K Space Marine army.

I would be shocked if the game here was anything anyone would really want to play more than a few times.
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Martijn van Ooij
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It's probably only worthwhile if you're getting it for the minis and plan to expand on the basic forces to play the regular 30k game. If the other starter sets such as Island of blood, dark vengeance and the assassinorum game are any indication you'll probably be disappointed if you buy it just for the game.
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Mark
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Island of Blood and Dark Vengeance are starter sets for playing their respective tabletop games. They are NOT boardgames. Assassinorum is a very good game. GW has no reason to apologize there. It just happens to have four assassin miniatures for which people will pay $25 each.
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Ken Stewart
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I'm curious how the gameplay is as well. It would be great to have the miniatures for playing regular 40k or 30k, and having the board game to play with my wife (who doesn't like complex miniature wargames).
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Martin
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Dr Lucky wrote:
Are people actually buying this for the gameplay? As far as I could tell, this was a thinly-veiled 30K Horus Heresy starter set and/or big box of MkIV armor for your 40K Space Marine army.

I would be shocked if the game here was anything anyone would really want to play more than a few times.

I'll buy it for the gameplay if the WD article is anything to go by. My gf doesn't really like complex boardgames because they take a long time to explain and play. But she loves Space Hulk, because it's simple and tight.
If this'll be anything like that (and based on what I read there's a good chance for that), I'll be all over it.
And since I also enjoy Space Hulk and I love high quality components it's a win win.
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Rog B
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90% will be just buying for the minis - theres already people selling the game without minis on ebay.
pick it up on the cheap and proxy the minis with something else?

(horus heresy: Euro edition. wooden cube fights wooden cube in epic combat)


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Don Johnson
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http://www.spikeybits.com/2015/11/how-to-play-betrayal-at-ca... How to play.
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James Hébert
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Thanks for the link, dosto.

The guy seems in a hurry to blast through the instructions with pretty much monotone delivery, making him hard for me to follow. I'll try again when I can pay full attention.
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Mark
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It's well done. But, it is a review by a tabletop gamer for tabletop gamers. Which is the primary audience for this game/miniatures box. A dead giveaway is a casual comparison to Space Hulk. GW 40K gamers are familiar with SH, so they get the intent of the comment. Similar setting, quick, tactical, fun for a few plays. Now, what about those miniatures, and are there more coming? That's their jam, man.

As a sophisticated and erudite Boardgame Geek, I see a whole different thing going on here. Yes, this is a game fought in a dungeon. But, it ain't no dungeon crawl. Yes, it's fought by individual models, but it ain't a man-to-man thang. Yes, it's Space Hulky at first glance BUT...It would appear to this interested (but not yet invested) observer, that Betrayal at Calth (BaC) gameplay has more in common with Age of Sigmar and the 40K tabletop game than it does with the likes of Space Hulk or Assassinorum. BaC looks like a squad game with "area" movement, not a game of individual actions. And, I'm not trying to start a riot amongst 40K gamers, but this gameplay could probably be easily transported to the tabletop environment. Just say'n.

Color me intrigued.
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James Hébert
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Thank you, ZombieMark! That helps. Sometimes my brain just gets addled watching certain videos... I appreciate it when sophisticated and erudite geeks offer their assessments!

My first impression was "dudes on a map/in a dungeon", so you've given me some homework to get some background... I've never been well-schooled on the concepts of tactics and movement types you noted. Is there a good resource to "get educated" on that?
 
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Alex B
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Reading the preview in White Dwarf 93, it makes me think a little of BattleLore 2nd edition (FFG version). Which isn't a bad thing...
 
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Joshua D
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Delobius wrote:
Reading the preview in White Dwarf 93, it makes me think a little of BattleLore 2nd edition (FFG version). Which isn't a bad thing...


How's that?
 
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ZombieMark wrote:
It's well done. But, it is a review by a tabletop gamer for tabletop gamers. Which is the primary audience for this game/miniatures box. A dead giveaway is a casual comparison to Space Hulk. GW 40K gamers are familiar with SH, so they get the intent of the comment. Similar setting, quick, tactical, fun for a few plays. Now, what about those miniatures, and are there more coming? That's their jam, man.


Yup - just like this written "review" from BoLS:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/11/review-the-horus-here...

There is literally nothing about how the game plays at all.

Normally I bite the bullet and jump straight onto a new GW board game. However, the Super Dungeon Explore kickstarter has tapped me out this month, but more importantly, I'm still not sure if this is just a disguised intro to the 30K war game. I'm not interested in tabletop war games these days. If it is a good, replayable board game in its own right, I'll grab a copy.
 
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Yeah, getting a proper review on tabletop stuff is though. Sometimes they just go through the rules, see how many pictures in the book and done. Very little actual gameplay experience. Just the nature of the hobby.
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Mark
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jhebert wrote:
Thank you, ZombieMark! That helps. Sometimes my brain just gets addled watching certain videos... I appreciate it when sophisticated and erudite geeks offer their assessments!

My first impression was "dudes on a map/in a dungeon", so you've given me some homework to get some background... I've never been well-schooled on the concepts of tactics and movement types you noted. Is there a good resource to "get educated" on that?


I'd be glad to help! I've decades of tactical gaming of all types. In all my years, I've rarely drawn a game. You are in good hands. I have a ten classic maxims:

1) If you know your opponent better than yourself, you are probably a stalker.
2) If your opponent knows you better than herself, you are most likely a flasher.
3) "Concentration of effort" does not refer to anything you do in the bathroom.
4) Make best use of terrain (hiding in bushes has its own rewards).
5) Shoot first, learn the rules later.
6) Hit'em where it hurts, but always have a "safe word."
7) He who relies on LUCK often gets ______ (rhymes with LUCK(ED)).
8) When it comes to casualties, don't sweat the small stuff. Keep telling yourself size doesn't matter.
9) Never give up, never surrender, never admit defeat. Just fake a paper cut and walk away.
10) The 10th maxim is always one too many!
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Chad Egbert
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RogB wrote:
90% will be just buying for the minis - theres already people selling the game without minis on ebay.
pick it up on the cheap and proxy the minis with something else?

(horus heresy: Euro edition. wooden cube fights wooden cube in epic combat)




How can you determine that for a game that is just coming out?
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Rog B
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its the common theme on any HH thread i've ever seen. (Bols, DakkaDakka, Reddit 30/40k etc - So i suppose thats more biased to the people who are already invested in 40k)
Most dont even seem to care that there is a game attached, its just a source of cheaper plastic models.
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Chad Egbert
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RogB wrote:
its the common theme on any HH thread i've ever seen. (Bols, DakkaDakka, Reddit 30/40k etc - So i suppose thats more biased to the people who are already invested in 40k)
Most dont even seem to care that there is a game attached, its just a source of cheaper plastic models.


For me it's just the opposite. I love that GW is producing something other than WH 40K. Yes they re-produced Space Hulk, which is a great game, but I like the fact they are branching out. Maybe the 40K players feel these games are only made for the minis but since I don't have the time or money for 40k, I welcome these with open arms. I bought Assassinorum: Execution Force and enjoy that. I will most likely pick this one up too, and actually play it.
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James Hébert
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pekin2121 wrote:
RogB wrote:
90% will be just buying for the minis - theres already people selling the game without minis on ebay.
pick it up on the cheap and proxy the minis with something else?

(horus heresy: Euro edition. wooden cube fights wooden cube in epic combat)




How can you determine that for a game that is just coming out?


A lot of the chatter you find online (at dakkadakka, BOLS, and some of the other sites the have a strong Warhammer following) supports this. This could be a quiet win for GW: It appeals to their existing gamer base (excellent minis at roughly half the usual price makes for an easy buy-in to grow an army), and if it meets with enough gameplay approval it could serve as an introduction to gathering a wider audience. The latter is a harder sell, at this price point.

BGG is more boardgame-oriented than tabletop-oriented (this is my opinion, now) and has been traditionally less forgiving of GW's board game (and legal) efforts of recent years, with good reason! Should Betrayal at Calth be a signal of a return to the older, more GW friendly days, with better rules and supported games, it could mark a turning point.
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Chad Egbert
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jhebert wrote:

Should Betrayal at Calth be a signal of a return to the older, more GW friendly days, with better rules and supported games, it could mark a turning point.


I am hoping so! I don't think anyone can deny the quality of GW products, they are top notch in my opinion. If they keep producing games like this it could take us back to the glory days. The higher prices may hurt them though, as some gamers may not give them much consideration after seeing the price tags.
 
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The "internet" (in this context, a bunch of well established GW related websites) consider BaC the biggest offering of the year. Because it contains $375 worth of miniatures in a $150 box. Miniatures you could not get anywhere at a discount, except from China pirates.

Some GW websites are offering bundle deals with multiple games. Hint: no one buys three copies of a $150 game to play three games simultaneously. Oh, wait, three sets of the miniatures is a Horus Heresy army (or two)!

I've said this once and I'll say it again (because I really have nothing else to say). This game system is what coulda/shoulda/woulda been Age of Sigmar for 40K. Maybe they panicked after AoG flamed out. I dunno. Maybe, just maybe, we boardgamers benefit from a corporate decision to turn a dang tabletop game into a boardgame. Maybe. And, maybe we boardgamers can turn this boardgame into a tabletop game, too. Geeks, these ARE the good ole days.

In any case, the trashcan at your local game store is going to be full of discarded Betrayal at Calth cardboard and paper components. Dumpster diving, anyone?
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Rog B
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pekin2121 wrote:
jhebert wrote:

Should Betrayal at Calth be a signal of a return to the older, more GW friendly days, with better rules and supported games, it could mark a turning point.


I am hoping so! I don't think anyone can deny the quality of GW products, they are top notch in my opinion. If they keep producing games like this it could take us back to the glory days. The higher prices may hurt them though, as some gamers may not give them much consideration after seeing the price tags.


Holy moley, if this is true, then.... YES.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/11/bombshell-blood-bowl-...

Bloodbowl, EPIC, Necromunda, Mordheim coming back? :O
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Chad Egbert
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RogB wrote:
pekin2121 wrote:
jhebert wrote:

Should Betrayal at Calth be a signal of a return to the older, more GW friendly days, with better rules and supported games, it could mark a turning point.


I am hoping so! I don't think anyone can deny the quality of GW products, they are top notch in my opinion. If they keep producing games like this it could take us back to the glory days. The higher prices may hurt them though, as some gamers may not give them much consideration after seeing the price tags.


Holy moley, if this is true, then.... YES.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/11/bombshell-blood-bowl-...

Bloodbowl, EPIC, Necromunda, Mordheim coming back? :O


OH MY!!! cool meeple
 
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