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Pandemic Legacy: Season 1» Forums » General

Subject: After the game is done. A mini rant. rss

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Michael Hyland

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It looks like a fun experience. I take it you apply stickers and such to the board as you play changing the game environment, but make the game pretty much a one campaign run through and done. Is that correct?

I think people are generally saying you get 18+ plays before you finish out and that is more plays than I have for a lot of games so I see the value there in what you pay. I have no issue with that.

I am ,however, bothered by the fact that the game can't be passed on to someone else after that despite the fact that I think people get their money's worth with it.

I also think that as a model, I'd be upset if it started catching on and a lot more Legacy games came out because the games are essentially recycle material when complete. I can't imagine wanting to keep the game to play its "final" state over and over again.

It reminds me of the PS4 / Xbox One issue when it came to digital content and disks. With digital content the resale market is dead and the result is likely more new sales hence the reason why Microsoft wanted to kill the disk. Legacy games kill the resale market for itself too because the game is useless when done if you sticker the board and such.

I really think the design itself should allow (after some sorting and reorganization) a return to it's original state with changes that are not perm stickers but some kind of removable type thing. I'd be willing to pay the prices the game is currently selling at. Isn't there some way a "Legacy" game could be designed so that the changes can be undone and the game reset? I can see why a publisher wouldn't want to do that - it would be a little more expensive to produce (stickers are cheap), and resetting a game makes it trade and resale material which means less new copies sold.

However, because there is no resale ability or trade value on the game, I think I'm going to wait until the price drops before I think of buying it just because once I buy it, I'm stuck with it forever unless I recycle it. I like having games in my collection that I can turn over because they have some intrinsic value, I don't want to be picking up bricks I can't get rid of.

So publishers, make the next round of Legacy games have the ability to be reset. There are a lot of ways to do it I would think with a little creativity. Heck you could even take that idea a step further and create "Legacy" expansions that take the world in a different direction after you play through the big game and reset it again from the start.

The storytelling aspect of the Legacy idea over multiple plays is a great one that should catch on, but the perm. state of it at the end is pretty undesirable at least to me.
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James
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BGG really needs a "beating a dead horse" emoticon.
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D.M. Jones
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Macrawn wrote:
It looks like a fun experience. I take it you apply stickers and such to the board as you play changing the game environment, but make the game pretty much a one campaign run through and done. Is that correct?

I think people are generally saying you get 18+ plays before you finish out and that is more plays than I have for a lot of games so I see the value there in what you pay. I have no issue with that.

I am ,however, bothered by the fact that the game can't be passed on to someone else after that despite the fact that I think people get their money's worth with it.

I also think that as a model, I'd be upset if it started catching on and a lot more Legacy games came out because the games are essentially recycle material when complete. I can't imagine wanting to keep the game to play its "final" state over and over again.

It reminds me of the PS4 / Xbox One issue when it came to digital content and disks. With digital content the resale market is dead and the result is likely more new sales hence the reason why Microsoft wanted to kill the disk. Legacy games kill the resale market for itself too because the game is useless when done if you sticker the board and such.

I really think the design itself should allow (after some sorting and reorganization) a return to it's original state with changes that are not perm stickers but some kind of removable type thing. I'd be willing to pay the prices the game is currently selling at. Isn't there some way a "Legacy" game could be designed so that the changes can be undone and the game reset? I can see why a publisher wouldn't want to do that - it would be a little more expensive to produce (stickers are cheap), and resetting a game makes it trade and resale material which means less new copies sold.

However, because there is no resale ability or trade value on the game, I think I'm going to wait until the price drops before I think of buying it just because once I buy it, I'm stuck with it forever unless I recycle it. I like having games in my collection that I can turn over because they have some intrinsic value, I don't want to be picking up bricks I can't get rid of.

So publishers, make the next round of Legacy games have the ability to be reset. There are a lot of ways to do it I would think with a little creativity. Heck you could even take that idea a step further and create "Legacy" expansions that take the world in a different direction after you play through the big game and reset it again from the start.

The storytelling aspect of the Legacy idea over multiple plays is a great one that should catch on, but the perm. state of it at the end is pretty undesirable at least to me.
Picture yourself in the shoes of the designers and publisher. What do you think their take-away will be, based on the wave of overwhelmingly positive feedback?
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David Fair
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Macrawn wrote:
So publishers, make the next round of Legacy games have the ability to be reset.
I could foresee a Pandemic Legacy Reboot Pack being sold, eventually...
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Kerrin 2
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Add on scenario packs for legacy games would be great. I'd love to be able to buy one for Pandemic Legacy and play again with a different story plot and hidden things.
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Michael Hyland

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BeyondMonopoly wrote:
Macrawn wrote:
So publishers, make the next round of Legacy games have the ability to be reset.
I could foresee a Pandemic Legacy Reboot Pack being sold, eventually...
As a separate $50 game lol. You bet there will be a reboot.
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Michael Hyland

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eviljelloman wrote:
BGG really needs a "beating a dead horse" emoticon.
I warned you it was a rant but you still had to read it.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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Macrawn wrote:
eviljelloman wrote:
BGG really needs a "beating a dead horse" emoticon.
I warned you it was a rant but you still had to read it.
I think the comment had more to do with the amount of posts on this topic rather than the depth of your rant....
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Joe Kiyoshi
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Its a Legacy game. Its not meant to be passed on. I feel its worth the price for me and my gaming group. Its an experience. The joys of putting down positive permanent additions and the tension and horror of placing scars and other negatives. The completely wrong yet oh so satisfying feeling of destroying a card and writing on the board. The shock and anticipation of opening the boxes or tabs to see what happens next. Its just not the same if its reusable. It puts the player in a different mind set.

No, this game is fine as is and I look forward to what season 2 has to offer.

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Michael Hyland

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JoeKiyoshi wrote:
Its a Legacy game. Its not meant to be passed on. I feel its worth the price for me and my gaming group. Its an experience. The joys of putting down positive permanent additions and the tension and horror of placing scars and other negatives. The completely wrong yet oh so satisfying feeling of destroying a card and writing on the board. The shock and anticipation of opening the boxes or tabs to see what happens next. Its just not the same if its reusable. It puts the player in a different mind set.

No, this game is fine as is and I look forward to what season 2 has to offer.

That may be true but there are ways to mark a board or card or track a changed condition that don't have to be perm. The value for the price is still good either way.

I kinda lectured my wife once when she put a gift in a reusable bag for Christmas more out of convenience. That's fine for adults I said, but there is nothing like the thrill of ripping that paper off a gift when you are a kid. That's half the pleasure of getting the gift as a kid. I guess I can see your point over my more sterile idea in that light Still, I don't think marking a card with a perm marker or something would give me that same taboo thrill it gave you but I do like that idea of a changing evolving game.
 
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D.M. Jones
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Macrawn wrote:


That may be true but there are ways to mark a board or card or track a changed condition that don't have to be perm.
Clearly, the vast majority of players seem to be quite satisfied with the game as it is designed and currently implemented. So, why should the game design and implementation be revamped to suit you and your preferences (and the rest of the vocal minority in your same camp)? No game can please everybody, so doesn't it make sense that the publisher and designers will seek to put out a game that the majority of people will enjoy? If the current approach really bothers you that much maybe you could seek out ways to work around it (there seems to be a small group of people interested in that) or you could simply play something else that is more in line with your own wants and desires. While I appreciate both your opinion and your right to voice it, it is also important to remember that a lot of people actually like the very thing that you dislike.

Added: Maybe there is some kind of expansion market for the publisher to release something separate from the base design that will support the I-dislike-legacy-games camp. Guess we will have to wait and see.
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Richard Sampson
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Macrawn wrote:
That may be true but there are ways to mark a board or card or track a changed condition that don't have to be perm. The value for the price is still good either way.
Removing permanence removes the weight from the decisions, and it would significantly diminish the experience. While it would make the game replayable and resellable, the overall value of what is being sold would be lessened for many if not most poeple.

I would strongly recommend watching Rahdo's final thoughts on the game to better understand what I mean. If his description of the emotional weight the decisions carry doesn't convince you, I would say this game is just probably not for you.

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Richard Ham
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ras2124 wrote:
I would strongly recommend watching Rahdo's final thoughts on the game to better understand what I mean. If his description of the emotional weight the decisions carry doesn't convince you, I would say this game is just probably not for you.
Also, you might want to check out my 'final final' thoughts, wherein i describe in the first few minutes exactly how the game has tons of replay value after you've finished the campaign:



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James Clarke
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I wear legacy shoes, use legacy shampoo and eat legacy breakfast cereals.

Its a bind when they run out on you, but I've just about got used to it.

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Frank M.
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I fully expect to play my copy again in the future. I've gotten to know the characters. We've been through a lot. And I have a unique world in which to play.

Why must people troll something they don't care for? How about if those of us who have enjoyed this game look up your most played games and go rate them all a 1?

Life is too short. Take a deep breath, hug someone you love, and then go play.

Check the rule book: no game requires universal adoration.
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Frank M.
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I fully expect to play my copy again in the future. I've gotten to know the characters. We've been through a lot. And I have a unique world in which to play.

Why must people troll something they don't care for? How about if those of us who have enjoyed this game look up your most played games and go rate them all a 1?

Life is too short. Take a deep breath, hug someone you love, and then go play.

Check the rule book: no game requires universal adoration.

EDIT: as of this post, 48% of the 1,346 people who rated this gave it a 10. "Inconceivable!" Yet there it is. And 21 gave it a 1. Really. How many of those raters played the game?
After one month, this is #21 overall and #1 Thematic for a week already. Congrats!
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Dean L
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Resale value is an issue, but how many actually regularly trade out games? And not just on BGG, in terms of the amount of copies sold of Pandemic Legacy altogether?

Because if it makes the game 20% more expensive to make resettable components, and the number of people who would want to trade it is less than 20%, hat actually makes it worse value for the consumer.
 
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Robert Mair
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I am completely convinced that $50 for 12-24 (avg: 18) plays of a 4 player game is well worth the investment ($1.04 - $0.52 avg: $0.69 per play).
I am so convinced that I bought two copies so I could play with my two different gaming groups.
I will also play with a third gaming group where another friend of mine was equally convinced and also bought 2 copies of the game to play with her two gaming groups.

I don't think I'll have any problem playing post-December games in my newly created game world. We shall have to wait and see for sure, but I'm not prepared to make an arbitrary statement that it would be "unplayable" without actually playing it.

If for any reason I might want to play again, and it is quite possible that I might, then I would have no problem buying a third copy and enjoying the experience all over again with another group, or even with the same group again.

To me "Legacy" means the game will evolve and be permanently changed at the end.
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I don't mind the permanent aspects but I really wish it didn't become a useless box essentially.

Couldnt they have made it a double sided board so you could do normal Pandemic with some backup supplies and the game materials at the end?
 
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James
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NowOrNever88 wrote:
I really wish it didn't become a useless box essentially.
It doesn't.

Re-watch Richard's final final thoughts up there again. You can replay the board in its final state as much as you want, or you can ignore the stickers and play base Pandemic on the board too.
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Frank M.
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eviljelloman wrote:
NowOrNever88 wrote:
I really wish it didn't become a useless box essentially.
It doesn't.

Re-watch Richard's final final thoughts up there again. You can replay the board in its final state as much as you want, or you can ignore the stickers and play base Pandemic on the board too.
No matter what you say or do, some people WILL be disgruntled. It is the nature of mankind. Cheers!
 
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Andrew Lieffring
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I spent $75 taking my friends out to dinner. We had fun, but I'm bummed the dinner doesn't have any resale value.
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Srdj
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Yeah, just get the damn game and enjoy the experience ffs. It's worth it. Its like watching a movie, are you gonna replay the movie again? Maybe in a few years, but guess what, Season 2 of Pandemic Legacy will come by then.
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Michael Brandt
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Maybe BGG should start up LegacyGameGeek.com. BGG could change their definition of a board game to include replayablity and long-lived components, and then remove entries for Risk Legacy, Pandemic Legacy, Seafall, etc. from BGG.com. Discussion for those games would be restricted to LGG, where there would be no need for this kind of dicussion.

No offense / nothing personal to OP, there have just been a lot of posts on this topic, and maybe referring to Legacy games as something different from "board games" would help everyone who can't get over this mental hurdle.
 
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Jim Alexander
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ras2124 wrote:
I would strongly recommend watching Rahdo's final thoughts on the game to better understand what I mean. If his description of the emotional weight the decisions carry doesn't convince you, I would say this game is just probably not for you.

The game makes people cry after they've completed it.

I'd say the designers did their job well.
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