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Subject: Trimming The Fat 2015 - a US only Math Trade (DISCUSSION) rss

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Albert
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I thought it would be nice to have a break from the "all inclusive" Math Trade and simply focus on (higher rated) boardgames.

Trade GeekList: http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/199349
Request GeekList: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/199350
Discussion: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/20880593


Use of the On-Line Want List Generator (OLWLG) is required for this event (please remember to tip JeffyJeff some GG for his support).
-------------------

Key dates (all times are CENTRAL TIME)

Open for posting games: Now until Saturday, November 14th (10pm)

Want list submission period: Saturday, November 14th (10pm) until Tuesday, November 17th (10pm) - no extensions!

Results posted approx. an hour thereafter.

--------------------

Please do not delete items or sweeteners once you have listed them.[/size] You can always submit a blank want list for an entry if you've traded it away before the deadline.

OK - some simple rules - please take a few minutes to read them:


d10-1 Only Geek Gold and Boardgames are allowed (eg. No Giftcards, DVD's Video games, RPGs, etc. - not even as sweeteners)

d10-2 Only games, with an Average rating (not Geek rating) of 6.50 or higher will be allowed.

d10-3 Geek Gold arbitrage are NOT allowed. If arbitage is found in the preliminary math trades results, the offending items will be removed and the results will be re-run. Otherwise, only errors by the moderator, will invalidate the results.

d10-4 You are expected to describe, as accurately as is reasonably possible, the condition (components and box), language and edition of your item in the description. This includes sweeteners if they are physical items (i.e. not GG).

For games not brand new (in shrink) you must inventory the game's components and list anything missing. Do not assume it's complete. Also, remember that just because something is "new in shrink" that doesn't mean that you shouldn't disclose any dings. It might not matter to you, but it matters to some people.

d10-5To add sweeteners to an item, use the Insert Geek Link dropdown. Do NOT add links to any items unless you're including them as a sweetener.

d10-6 All shipping costs are covered by the person listing the item. However, this is a U.S. only math trade. You must have a U.S. address to receive games. There will be no international shipping of items.

d10-7 If you'd like to add anything that does not have an XGG entry or otherwise use an alternate name, use a board game entry and select Outside the Scope of BGG (id=23953). In the description for your item, include a title, formatted like this: +altname+Pick 2 of 5 Games!-altname- You MUST use this if your main item is a portion of an item with its own listing; for example, if you've got just the Scout part of Carcassonne: King & Scout as the Geeklist item, list it under Outside the Scope, not the K&S entry. (Please read this last part in the spirit of the rule; I hope it's clear that I'm not talking about CCGs or 3M games that are missing a single piece.)


d10-8 I reserve the right to remove any entries at my discretion. Only mistakes made by me in my capacity as moderator will invalidate the results. If anyone (myself included) checks the wrong box in Step 4, that's very unfortunate, but the trade must go on.


Note: You will NOT be able to respond to comments in the GeekList once it is locked down and the submission period begins.

Other useful information

OLWLG Help: http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/OLWLG

Software Used: TradeMaximizer 1.4 with duplicate protection. SEED=1234567, ITERATIONS=100, METRIC=USERS-TRADING

---------------------

Important links:

For more details or math trades, check out the Math Trade Wiki at: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Math_Trades


%Options%
Deadline-Offers: Saturday, November 14th, 2015, 10:00 PM CDT
Deadline-Wants: Tuesday, November 17th, 2015, 10:00 PM CDT
%End%
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Albert
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We're up and running. As long as I was doing away with Giftcards, I decided to really trim things down and do away with everything but (higher rated) boardgames and geek gold. Everything else has a tendency to 'clog' up math trades - and this is coming from someone who loves going for giftcards in math trades.
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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Nice work. Was just gonna kick one off myself. Now I can take part and you get the headaches.
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Scott Yavorski
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What about games that are too new to be rated? I won a copy of Pass the Blame from USA-opoly and I just don't see it getting played in my group. Can I throw that in here?
 
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Matt D
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aksosa wrote:
We're up and running. As long as I was doing away with Giftcards, I decided to really trim things down and do away with everything but (higher rated) boardgames and geek gold. Everything else has a tendency to 'clog' up math trades - and this is coming from someone who loves going for giftcards in math trades.


I like this format. I hope people stick with it.

Although I will say that achieving a 6.5 must be pretty easy. I just went through adding the items from my last trade (btw it's in OLWLG so you can change it to be a shipping trade before 18 people post on here asking if it's really a no-ship trade ) and the only one that didn't meet these requirements was Scrabble. Heh.

Or maybe I just only have good games? Who knows...
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Albert
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Ciffy wrote:
What about games that are too new to be rated? I won a copy of Pass the Blame from USA-opoly and I just don't see it getting played in my group. Can I throw that in here?


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Albert
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Yeah, 6.5 should be easy enough to get to without limiting the math trade too much - although I've already run across a few of my own things that don't meet the requirement.

Before I pared down my collection to mostly good games, I always wanted to run a 'cream of the crap' math trade for games under 6.5. Alas, it was not to be




hestiansun wrote:
aksosa wrote:
We're up and running. As long as I was doing away with Giftcards, I decided to really trim things down and do away with everything but (higher rated) boardgames and geek gold. Everything else has a tendency to 'clog' up math trades - and this is coming from someone who loves going for giftcards in math trades.


I like this format. I hope people stick with it.

Although I will say that achieving a 6.5 must be pretty easy. I just went through adding the items from my last trade (btw it's in OLWLG so you can change it to be a shipping trade before 18 people post on here asking if it's really a no-ship trade ) and the only one that didn't meet these requirements was Scrabble. Heh.

Or maybe I just only have good games? Who knows...
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Jason Monroe
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aksosa wrote:
Yeah, 6.5 should be easy enough to get to without limiting the math trade too much - although I've already run across a few of my own things that don't meet the requirement.

Before I pared down my collection to mostly good games, I always wanted to run a 'cream of the crap' math trade for games under 6.5. Alas, it was not to be




hestiansun wrote:
aksosa wrote:
We're up and running. As long as I was doing away with Giftcards, I decided to really trim things down and do away with everything but (higher rated) boardgames and geek gold. Everything else has a tendency to 'clog' up math trades - and this is coming from someone who loves going for giftcards in math trades.


I like this format. I hope people stick with it.

Although I will say that achieving a 6.5 must be pretty easy. I just went through adding the items from my last trade (btw it's in OLWLG so you can change it to be a shipping trade before 18 people post on here asking if it's really a no-ship trade ) and the only one that didn't meet these requirements was Scrabble. Heh.

Or maybe I just only have good games? Who knows...


An under 6.5 MT would be pretty interesting...If anything, I'd have more games to offer
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mike paul
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Cool idea to add a wrinkle to the listing rules.

I've often wondered, what exactly is the difference between a games average rating and its geek rating?
 
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Damian
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eimative wrote:
Cool idea to add a wrinkle to the listing rules.

I've often wondered, what exactly is the difference between a games average rating and its geek rating?

it's explained in the FAQ. Basically it's the average rating with votes added to drag it closer to the median. The more real votes it has the less this affects it.
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Patrick G.
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I liked the clutter. I'll still probably throw some things in this one.... but I liked the clutter. Some interesting things can be found in clutter.

And why are we still supporting the cane-shaking-rocking-chair-inhabitants? Deleting things doesn't screw up the OLWLG nor bookmarking items.
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Jason Monroe
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I'm assuming sweeteners need to be above 6.5 as well?
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Robert Moore
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belial1134 wrote:
I'm assuming sweeteners need to be above 6.5 as well?


I was curious about that too. I could see someone saying that their item meets the standards as long as SOMETHING in their listing is over a 6.5 rating.
 
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Matt D
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KingRob wrote:
belial1134 wrote:
I'm assuming sweeteners need to be above 6.5 as well?


I was curious about that too. I could see someone saying that their item meets the standards as long as SOMETHING in their listing is over a 6.5 rating.


I'm not the mod, but I'd probably rule to allow a RELATED sweetener below the cutoff, but not an unrelated one. Ie:

Game 1 - average 7.02
Expansion to Game 1 - average 6.24

"Okay"

Game 1 - average 7.02
Game 2 - average 6.24

"Not okay"

Bearing in mind that the average is displayed within the Geeklist item header for the main game listed, and thus easy to see, while it is NOT for sweeteners, making it much harder to police.

Based I think on the spirit of the rule, this interpretation prevents someone from listing a bunch of crap games with one "anchor baby" of acceptable game, while not preventing someone from Listing an otherwise acceptable game which happens to have one crappy expansion that no one liked.

But again, just my two cents. I'm not the mod so really you should wait until he weighs in...
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Robert Moore
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hestiansun wrote:
KingRob wrote:
belial1134 wrote:
I'm assuming sweeteners need to be above 6.5 as well?


I was curious about that too. I could see someone saying that their item meets the standards as long as SOMETHING in their listing is over a 6.5 rating.


I'm not the mod, but I'd probably rule to allow a RELATED sweetener below the cutoff, but not an unrelated one.


And I would be okay with that ruling too. I'm not sure how it would harm anyone to include one game as an "anchor baby" as long as the first game isn't trash.
It kind of boils down to whether people would prefer receiving
Smash Up
to
Smash Up + Austin Powers CCG + Justin Bieber Backstage Pass Game.
On the one hand, you're getting extra games. On the other hand, they may be crap.
 
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corkysru wrote:
I liked the clutter. I'll still probably throw some things in this one.... but I liked the clutter. Some interesting things can be found in clutter.

And why are we still supporting the cane-shaking-rocking-chair-inhabitants? Deleting things doesn't screw up the OLWLG nor bookmarking items.


Most of what I end up (happily) trading for is clutter.
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Brian
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I like that we're (or you're) experimenting with how these work.

I don't have a specific agenda here, but maybe it'd also be good to carve an exception to allow adding games below the rating cutoff if explicitly requested in the requests thread? If I had a fear, it wouldn't be an inability to get rid of crap, but an inability to get something I was looking for.
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Eric Spiegel
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Thanks for running this Albert. I'm excited to see how this experiment turns out. I only had one game leftover from the previous MT that didn't fit the new criteria, so I actually think an under 6.5 trade might be a fun idea as well.
 
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Albert
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I was thinking this exact same thing for the very reasons you state so I'm going with this. The spirit of the math trade is to reduce clutter and this would be the easiest way to moderate this.

hestiansun wrote:

Game 1 - average 7.02
Expansion to Game 1 - average 6.24

"Okay"

Game 1 - average 7.02
Game 2 - average 6.24

"Not okay"

Bearing in mind that the average is displayed within the Geeklist item header for the main game listed, and thus easy to see, while it is NOT for sweeteners, making it much harder to police.

Based I think on the spirit of the rule, this interpretation prevents someone from listing a bunch of crap games with one "anchor baby" of acceptable game, while not preventing someone from Listing an otherwise acceptable game which happens to have one crappy expansion that no one liked.

But again, just my two cents. I'm not the mod so really you should wait until he weighs in...
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Brandon M
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NotJeff wrote:
I like that we're (or you're) experimenting with how these work.

I don't have a specific agenda here, but maybe it'd also be good to carve an exception to allow adding games below the rating cutoff if explicitly requested in the requests thread? If I had a fear, it wouldn't be an inability to get rid of crap, but an inability to get something I was looking for.


I like this idea. Maybe if another one of these is run in the future a clause could be included for such cases with the requirement any sub 6.5 posts include a link to the request list entry they are fulfilling.

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aksosa wrote:
I was thinking this exact same thing for the very reasons you state so I'm going with this. The spirit of the math trade is to reduce clutter and this would be the easiest way to moderate this.

hestiansun wrote:

Game 1 - average 7.02
Expansion to Game 1 - average 6.24

"Okay"

Game 1 - average 7.02
Game 2 - average 6.24

"Not okay"

Bearing in mind that the average is displayed within the Geeklist item header for the main game listed, and thus easy to see, while it is NOT for sweeteners, making it much harder to police.

Based I think on the spirit of the rule, this interpretation prevents someone from listing a bunch of crap games with one "anchor baby" of acceptable game, while not preventing someone from Listing an otherwise acceptable game which happens to have one crappy expansion that no one liked.

But again, just my two cents. I'm not the mod so really you should wait until he weighs in...


reverse question... I have a game that is ranked at 6.24 but the expansion for it is at 6.52... can I list THAT as a combo?

or is it wierd enough that I should list the expansion as the main attraction and the base game as sweetener..
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Don't get me wrong.. Thanks for running this Albert.
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I like this time frame for the math trade better than the longer ones. No offense to the good folks who moderate these (I am always thankful to you folks) but 3 week math trades are to long. It ties up your trade items for a long time and you tend to forget about the math trade when you have weeks to go before anything happens. This one hits the sweet spot time wise.
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porkuslime wrote:
aksosa wrote:
I was thinking this exact same thing for the very reasons you state so I'm going with this. The spirit of the math trade is to reduce clutter and this would be the easiest way to moderate this.

hestiansun wrote:

Game 1 - average 7.02
Expansion to Game 1 - average 6.24

"Okay"

Game 1 - average 7.02
Game 2 - average 6.24

"Not okay"

Bearing in mind that the average is displayed within the Geeklist item header for the main game listed, and thus easy to see, while it is NOT for sweeteners, making it much harder to police.

Based I think on the spirit of the rule, this interpretation prevents someone from listing a bunch of crap games with one "anchor baby" of acceptable game, while not preventing someone from Listing an otherwise acceptable game which happens to have one crappy expansion that no one liked.

But again, just my two cents. I'm not the mod so really you should wait until he weighs in...


reverse question... I have a game that is ranked at 6.24 but the expansion for it is at 6.52... can I list THAT as a combo?

or is it wierd enough that I should list the expansion as the main attraction and the base game as sweetener..


I can't imagine that will be an allowable exception given that expansions virtually always have artificially inflated ratings due to selection bias. (very few people will ever play and rate expansions for a game they didn't like in the first place)
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Justin Fuhrmann
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NuMystic wrote:
porkuslime wrote:
aksosa wrote:
I was thinking this exact same thing for the very reasons you state so I'm going with this. The spirit of the math trade is to reduce clutter and this would be the easiest way to moderate this.

hestiansun wrote:

Game 1 - average 7.02
Expansion to Game 1 - average 6.24

"Okay"

Game 1 - average 7.02
Game 2 - average 6.24

"Not okay"

Bearing in mind that the average is displayed within the Geeklist item header for the main game listed, and thus easy to see, while it is NOT for sweeteners, making it much harder to police.

Based I think on the spirit of the rule, this interpretation prevents someone from listing a bunch of crap games with one "anchor baby" of acceptable game, while not preventing someone from Listing an otherwise acceptable game which happens to have one crappy expansion that no one liked.

But again, just my two cents. I'm not the mod so really you should wait until he weighs in...


reverse question... I have a game that is ranked at 6.24 but the expansion for it is at 6.52... can I list THAT as a combo?

or is it wierd enough that I should list the expansion as the main attraction and the base game as sweetener..


I can't imagine that will be an allowable exception given that expansions virtually always have artificially inflated ratings due to selection bias. (very few people will ever play and rate expansions for a game they didn't like in the first place)


Would you then disallow the same expansion without the lower-rated base game as a sweetener? It seems strange to say that you could post the expansion by itself but it's not okay to post the same item with its base game. It also creates a lot of extra work to actually check all the ratings on stuff listed as sweeteners.
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