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Subject: Vision Interpretation sand timer clarification rss

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James A
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The rules say that once all visions have been handed out to each player consecutively, the sand timer must start. So, the ghost hands out visions to player 1. Do they then all discuss and then that player decides and move to player 2? Or does the ghost keep going regardless of whether or not they are decided? Because it's weird that the player who first gets a vision has all this time to think on their choice and then by the time the last player gets a vision, the sand timer immediately starts...
 
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Ed Hughes
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No, the ghost hands out the cards face down to a player, freshens his hand, then gives a vision to the next player, etc, then once everyone has face down visions, the sand timer flips and so do the cards.

That way the ghost has time to consider what to give each player and everyone has the same time to look at their cards.
 
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James
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themanfromsaturn wrote:
No, the ghost hands out the cards face down to a player, freshens his hand, then gives a vision to the next player, etc, then once everyone has face down visions, the sand timer flips and so do the cards.

That way the ghost has time to consider what to give each player and everyone has the same time to look at their cards.
This is flat out incorrect. The cards are given to the psychic face up, so the team can work together interpreting the dream while the ghost figures out his next clue.
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Jovel Castaneda
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from page 9 of rulebook:
Upon receiving a vision, each psychic attempts to interpret it and discover the character/location/object to which it refers (depending which progress board their intuition token is currently on). To this end, psychics may freely examine their vision cards and psychic cards, and discuss hypotheses with the other psychics.
When the ghost has projected visions to all psychics, he starts the sand timer.

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James A
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Ya I know for a fact that they aren't done hands down haha. But that still leaves my question...the last player gets no time compared to the others. My guess is, though, even if players haven't decided on anything whatsoever, the ghost will still keep handing things out whenever they want/are ready. So they just won't have much time on the last vision.

I saw a youtube playthrough where the ghost waited until each vision was settled upon until the next was handed out but I believe that's wrong.
 
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P. oeppel
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Remember, this is a COOPERATIVE game. So there is no "oh the player receiving cards last is disadvantaged because he has less time to decide".

Handing the cards out face up allows the group to discuss each vision while waiting for the next. So the GROUP still has two minutes to discuss even the last vision, which seems plenty.

In addition, the group has something to do while the ghost selects the vision cards (which is often hard enough and can take some time)
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Burt Yaroch

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Who2342 wrote:


I saw a youtube playthrough where the ghost waited until each vision was settled upon until the next was handed out but I believe that's wrong.
I suppose you could do it that way if you wanted but, man, would that take forever. The ghost is controlling the flow of gameplay and I try to be as expeditious as possible, particularly in the higher player counts.

And while true that the last player gets less time than the others, it probably isn't as significant as you think. The first person to get their cards isn't mulling over their own that whole time. They move on to the second, third, fourth etc. sets as they are handed out, as does everyone else. Everyone in our group seemed to be discussing one or two sets of cards at a time.
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Robert Stewart
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Fairness is a worthy and meritorious goal, but one can go too far in pursuing it to the exclusion of other values - in this specific instance, giving all players equal time to consider is only achievable by giving most players more time with nothing to consider. Instead, the official rules prioritise the, also worthy, goal of minimising player downtime, and allow players to consider their cards as soon as the ghost commits to them, and the ghost to decide on other mediums' messages while the first are still being considered.

It's also rarely a good idea for players to commit to an interpretation of their own vision before seeing what other clues are handed out, in case another player gets a much stronger clue to the card you would guess.
 
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J V
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When playing with people a few days ago, one of them said
"How long is this sand timer"
I said "it's two minutes, but we aren't going to use it, we don't need it"
one of them said, "well if we're supposed to use it we should use it"
I said "If you want, but it isn't necessary unless someone is just taking FOREVER to decide"

So we used it, it never even went half way through it's sand before everyone had made their decisions. After a few rounds, it went back into the box.

But as stated, you flip it after giving the last psychic their cards. Just give the player that takes forever their card(s) first if possible.
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John Mackenzie
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pinoeppel wrote:
Remember, this is a COOPERATIVE game. So there is no "oh the player receiving cards last is disadvantaged because he has less time to decide".
This is the key - the Ghost is part of the team too!

One other point that I think it's important to remark on is that the Ghost plays a critical role in regulating the pace and the cadence of the game. For example, if one of the players is finding it difficult to settle on a choice, make sure they get their vision/clue early. If someone else decides more or less instantly, give them their clue last. But more than that, the ghost can introduce more tension by getting the visions out faster, or relax the pace of the game if the vibe is more atmospheric or chilled.

I like to think of the ghost player as a kind of master of ceremonies - so whether or not we use the timer strictly really depends on the mood and feel of the game with the specific group of players.

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P. oeppel
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So far, the order of handing out cards depends on me having (more or less) appropriate/matching cards for one psychic. Seldom, there was a real choice between all players. I just did what I can before taking the mulligan (played only on easy so far)
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Patrick Doss
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we play with the ghost giving all cards face down and no one can look at them until the ghost has given cards to all players. It feels tighter this way and the timer adds tension which makes the clairvoyance tokens more meaningful as the X markers see more play. This has become our favorite way to play right or wrong.
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J V
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spiderfingers86 wrote:
we play with the ghost giving all cards face down and no one can look at them until the ghost has given cards to all players. It feels tighter this way and the timer adds tension which makes the clairvoyance tokens more meaningful as the X markers see more play. This has become our favorite way to play right or wrong.
Fun is the main thing.
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jog1118 wrote:
from page 9 of rulebook:
Upon receiving a vision, each psychic attempts to interpret it and discover the character/location/object to which it refers (depending which progress board their intuition token is currently on). To this end, psychics may freely examine their vision cards and psychic cards, and discuss hypotheses with the other psychics.
When the ghost has projected visions to all psychics, he starts the sand timer.

The way we played it today, which I think worked well, was when a psychic received their vision(s) they were able to explain their hypothesis to other psychics, but the other psychics were not permitted to offer any advice until after all had received their visions and the timer was flipped.

Kind of a hybrid... a happy medium, if you will

I thought that's how the game was supposed to be played, but now I'm not so sure.
 
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Rules-wise, are players actually allowed to assign their intuition tokens before everyone has received their cards? The rules seem to allow for a player to flat out assign token and then also have people vote before the next person gets their card even, but that seems pretty powerful?
 
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James
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Why is it powerful to vote before you have all the information the ghost is going to give out?
 
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Laura Gerard
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Taken from the rules:

Quote:
Psychics may change the positions of their intuition tokens at any time until the sand timer expires.
Quote:
players may move or remove clairvoyancy tokens at any time until the sand timer expires.
Bold is original.

We play that you can place, move, or remove intuition tokens (crystal balls) and clairvoyancy tokens at any time during the hour/round beginning from the time that the clock (round tracker) is advanced (even before the first vision) until the sand timer runs out. I don't see anywhere that the rules prohibit this.

Q Why would you place an intuition token before the first vision?
A You are guessing based on past visions and of course you will reevaluate when you get your next vision. Sometimes we place the token on it's side to indicate that it is an initial guess and we are unsure about it. It helps other players to know which cards are possibly already accounted for when trying to narrow down their guesses.
 
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Yeah was looking at those rules as well, but technically the phase before the sand time even starts is also before the expiration, so they didn't seem dispositive. I suppose if you just put tokens next to it's not that much of a difference so maybe more of an academic discussion?
 
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Robert Stewart
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What changes if you're not allowed to place tokens before the sand timer starts? Players will still be able to look at and discuss visions and possibilities - the only change I can see is that they'll have to remember their decisions rather than marking them and moving on...

Since you're allowed to change your mind freely until the timer actually runs out, only the final arrangement of tokens matters - unless you find that physically placing the tokens before the timer runs out is part of the challenge, it doesn't really matter when you put them out - it's a more convenient way of keeping track of your thoughts than constantly talking about it.
 
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