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Subject: How is the balance and overall feeling of the game for you? rss

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Daniel Hausknecht
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Hi guys, just got a question for those, who already played the game.

We ran into problems of "kingmaking" or "one fight ruined the whole game coz of bad dices" in other games lately. (in Cthulhu wars mainly, but we agreed, this lowers the fun factor of the game a lot).

So my question is regarding these, how is Blood rage in terms of balance and "runaway leader" issues? Im hoping that the card draft/driven combat is solving the dices issue a lot.. But Im not sure, because Im still waiting for my game (for example, in CW, when one guy had a great round, he then got a lot of power and because of that, he could do almost twice as much actions as others, so we finished our turns and then he solely continued to grow even more, because we couldnt react to that without power to fuel our actions...).
 
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Jerry
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We played our first time last weekend. Fun game.

Scores were 153, 117, 110, 88. We all knew the game was over about 3/4 of the way through the 2nd Age.

Its just one play and our first at that so take it as you do
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Daniel Hausknecht
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Does the feeling, that one guy is leading a lot takes the fun out of the game? In said game from me, we usually were too weak to attack him or something, but it was mainly the factor, that we could only stay out of the game for rest of round and watch what else we loose, that drawn the fun away..
I like more playing the game itself, than the result (I dont need to win), we just need the gameplaying part to be fun
 
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Jerry
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I was still having fun until the end. I was planning a big play at the end and on the very last turn it got foiled.

All but one of us (guess which one) said we made some errors we wouldn't make on a second play.

My personal favorite moment was when I lured everyone into the center for a huge bloodbath and then after all the carnage I hit them with a 2 points per dead guy upgrade they forgot about. I got almost 30 points. Was great!

I just remembered that we also didn't draft cards for the first age just to see how the game played. We did draft for ages 2 and 3. That made a difference I'm sure.
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Jimmie Andersson
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We have had pretty decisive games with clear winners (with about 30-50 pts) but much coser behind, and can you get a good combo then things can get out of hand so the drafting is very important. I have heard no real complaint about it from our players and everybody has been eager to play more, and soon. And the game is really fast once everybody has played it at least once so you don't have to sit too long and wait for defeat (and with so many really good cards you should have the chance for a great last draft and making a 3rd age comeback even if you're lagging).
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Daniel Hausknecht
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Thanks guys, seems this game will be more fun for us too
 
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Adhil Patel
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There are definitely some big swings and it can be unforgiving, but it's a ton of fun.

Don't try to play it as a strategy game. It's carnage with some clever tactical elements, and some good combos.
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James
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Zaily wrote:
Hi guys, just got a question for those, who already played the game.

We ran into problems of "kingmaking" or "one fight ruined the whole game coz of bad dices" in other games lately. (in Cthulhu wars mainly, but we agreed, this lowers the fun factor of the game a lot).

So my question is regarding these, how is Blood rage in terms of balance and "runaway leader" issues? Im hoping that the card draft/driven combat is solving the dices issue a lot.. But Im not sure, because Im still waiting for my game (for example, in CW, when one guy had a great round, he then got a lot of power and because of that, he could do almost twice as much actions as others, so we finished our turns and then he solely continued to grow even more, because we couldnt react to that without power to fuel our actions...).
Metagaming is very important in Cthulhu Wars...it pays to talk about the game as it's played and take steps to attack the threat to win the game (so no one is in a position to win because of a single combat). The minimum power rule is one of the catchup mechanisms that make this possible. You don't have to like games like this, I just mention because Blood Rage likely, too, involves a healthy dose of metagaming as did Chaos in the old World. I hope it works out for you.
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Daniel Hausknecht
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Yea, I think you are right, we didn't cooperate against the obvious leader and when we wanted, it was a little late.

But from reading through reviews I have a good feeling about Blood Rage. I hope our group will enjoy it too
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Jeffrey Nolin
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We've only played it a couple times, but I think we all realized early on that clever drafting, clever play and good luck could lead to huge point swings in each age, so that anything could happen in the last moments of the last age.
 
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Sam Leung
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I played this with many different groups and had many mix responses.

The euro guys hated it.
The mtg guys said powers were sometimes unbalanced
The noobs looooooved it.

Me? I agreed with all their comments but most importantly, I had fun on most of my plays.

I am quite sure it's possible to have a runaway leader, or a great comeback, simply because of the cards u draft. Some tactical elements can completely be worthless due to the wAy the games is designed.

I can deal with the crazy card combos cos well, it's fun and u drafted so, who to blame?

But there are two things I find could be better.

1) if u don't have a Loki card that gets u points for dying, trying to stop a player with superior forces from pillaging is a complete waste of time and rage. If u by some chance stop him, u get a few points for winning combat and u loose your (probably high valued) combat card. That's it. Really doesn't encourage other players to stop a player with bigger numbers.

2) after a province is pillaged, and somehow an opponent chooses to camp in that province(usually for scoring quest cards) u can't even do anything to stop it.

So far, these are the main complains I have.

Despite that, it's still really fun. I can't explain why I enjoy it so much and i give up trying to figure that out.
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Ivan Alaiz
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Skinnyspartan wrote:


1) if u don't have a Loki card that gets u points for dying, trying to stop a player with superior forces from pillaging is a complete waste of time and rage. If u by some chance stop him, u get a few points for winning combat and u loose your (probably high valued) combat card. That's it. Really doesn't encourage other players to stop a player with bigger numbers.

2) after a province is pillaged, and somehow an opponent chooses to camp in that province(usually for scoring quest cards) u can't even do anything to stop it.

So far, these are the main complains I have.
My thoughts:

I have not experience runaway leader effect, at least there were 2 players with a clear edge in each game, there is a chance that with a very bad age 1 a player has little chance to catch up.

1) I love to abuse the Age 1 Mystic if I can get it, get him to Ygdrassil and go into any pillage looking for trouble specially if it would be an uncontested pillage, that way you are forcing the winning player to use up a card. I have also done so if playing with gods and frigga or loki are present, but even without it can be worth spending a warrior to force other player to spend a card.

2) I have invaded, moved and 2 age mystic'ed on pillaged provinces to try to prevent a player from getting a mission, specially if I think he kept 2 identical missions for himself...

 
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Anthony Avelar
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This is a great question. I posted that Frigga's Charm is broken and still believe it is very powerful. It has won 4/5 games that I have played. I agree that this game is just fun even when you don't win. I believe that there are more times when you know you can't win, but usually 1st and 2nd are closer. This game is just fun to play.

Also I thought it was hilarious when you said that MTG players say it is unbalanced. As an avid drafter in MTG, I feel that I can understand power levels of cards in drafting. I also agree that noobs just love this game. They love just throwing guys on the board and having big fights. They want to be involved in all the fights.
 
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Tom Vander Velden
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We played our first two games this weekend at GameHoleCon in Madison, WI. Both games were 5 player games with the mystics but not the gods. The first play was certainly a runaway win. We did not understand the power of the cards and one player got pretty much all the Loki stuff along with the Valhalla quests so it was pretty much over. Chalk that up to inexperience.

The second game we played right after so we where all more prepared. We were able to counter draft the Loki stuff effectively and the game came down to a 2 person fight and then a 3rd person making a strong run at the end with Odin's throne. The strategies employed for the victor were really different than the first game.

The different paths to victory is the thing that really stand out in this game, well along with the awesome minis. The fact that after only one game, we where able to pick up and employ 3 or 4 different strategies really makes me feel this game could have legs.

It did seem from both games, that one person can be left behind and "picked" on the whole game. Other players kind of used him to complete there goals, constantly setting him behind, again maybe too early for that judgment, but in both games once player certainly was far behind, and seemed to have little or no chance by the middle of the second age.

So to answer the question, I don't think there is a runaway leader, but there may be a runaway loser issue?

Everyone who played is looking forward to more plays, and seeking out the new strategies.
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Nicholas Dewald
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verridian wrote:
We played our first two games this weekend at GameHoleCon in Madison, WI. Both games were 5 player games with the mystics but not the gods. The first play was certainly a runaway win. We did not understand the power of the cards and one player got pretty much all the Loki stuff along with the Valhalla quests so it was pretty much over. Chalk that up to inexperience.

The second game we played right after so we where all more prepared. We were able to counter draft the Loki stuff effectively and the game came down to a 2 person fight and then a 3rd person making a strong run at the end with Odin's throne. The strategies employed for the victor were really different than the first game.

The different paths to victory is the thing that really stand out in this game, well along with the awesome minis. The fact that after only one game, we where able to pick up and employ 3 or 4 different strategies really makes me feel this game could have legs.

It did seem from both games, that one person can be left behind and "picked" on the whole game. Other players kind of used him to complete there goals, constantly setting him behind, again maybe too early for that judgment, but in both games once player certainly was far behind, and seemed to have little or no chance by the middle of the second age.

So to answer the question, I don't think there is a runaway leader, but there may be a runaway loser issue?

Everyone who played is looking forward to more plays, and seeking out the new strategies.
I have played at least a half a dozen times and I agree with the runaway loser problem.
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Ivan Alaiz
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There is not easy fix for that... but having the lowest score player be first in turn on second and third ages could help...
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verridian wrote:
We played our first two games this weekend at GameHoleCon in Madison, WI. Both games were 5 player games with the mystics but not the gods. The first play was certainly a runaway win. We did not understand the power of the cards and one player got pretty much all the Loki stuff along with the Valhalla quests so it was pretty much over. Chalk that up to inexperience.

The second game we played right after so we where all more prepared. We were able to counter draft the Loki stuff effectively and the game came down to a 2 person fight and then a 3rd person making a strong run at the end with Odin's throne. The strategies employed for the victor were really different than the first game.

The different paths to victory is the thing that really stand out in this game, well along with the awesome minis. The fact that after only one game, we where able to pick up and employ 3 or 4 different strategies really makes me feel this game could have legs.

It did seem from both games, that one person can be left behind and "picked" on the whole game. Other players kind of used him to complete there goals, constantly setting him behind, again maybe too early for that judgment, but in both games once player certainly was far behind, and seemed to have little or no chance by the middle of the second age.

So to answer the question, I don't think there is a runaway leader, but there may be a runaway loser issue?

Everyone who played is looking forward to more plays, and seeking out the new strategies.
I definitely think that if you fall behind or are wiped off the board for a round that there is no coming back from that.

However I disagree with your first part about loki. I think loki is very out of balance with the other strategies in a bad way. The whole point of loki is to lose battles and have guys in valhalla. with this strategy you are not able to bump up your stats by pillaging and you quickly fall behind. by the end of round 3 most other strategies will have at least one or 2 stats in the final slot and will get 20-60 points off of stats. that is the big downfall of loki, you don't get that big jump at the end of the game like everyone else.
 
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sean lukie
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Zaily wrote:
Hi guys, just got a question for those, who already played the game.

We ran into problems of "kingmaking" or "one fight ruined the whole game coz of bad dices" in other games lately. (in Cthulhu wars mainly, but we agreed, this lowers the fun factor of the game a lot).

So my question is regarding these, how is Blood rage in terms of balance and "runaway leader" issues? Im hoping that the card draft/driven combat is solving the dices issue a lot.. But Im not sure, because Im still waiting for my game (for example, in CW, when one guy had a great round, he then got a lot of power and because of that, he could do almost twice as much actions as others, so we finished our turns and then he solely continued to grow even more, because we couldnt react to that without power to fuel our actions...).
We are about 10 games in now, with a total of 12 different folks playing. I've been in every one of those games so I have a really good idea of how it tends to play out. We have had a guy who is in last place by a fairly large margin for two ages win via odin's throne in the 3rd age. But that was early play. If everyone knows the cards, what tends to happen is that if someone has taken a loki strategy and killing their guys off, they won't see another loki card in the draft unless its their opening hand. In the third age, everyone is doing their best not to pass along duplicate quests to lessen the throne. So these types of things help a lot. I have seen a straight up brute force strat win with upping all of their stats by the end, i have seen loki win, etc. They all seem valid.

Here is the one issue I see with the game, if someone is in a pretty good lead and in the third age their opening draft hand contains a card that goes along with their strategy the game is over. Nothing really anyone can do. Same goes for if a clear leader gets the throne in the last age, its probably over. So this bugs me a little... THAT said, after adding in the mystics, all the extra monsters, etc. and still only dealing out 8 cards to each player, there is now a much bigger chance certain cards won't even BE in the draft, let alone the lucky player who needs it gets it. So I feel now this has helped quite a bit.

As far as a runaway loser, I agree I have seen this in about 50% of the games so far. But honestly, it seemed like it was a person who just didn't really take any direction in the game. (tom was yours bill both times lol)

Other than that I love the game, there is a lot of decision making which is just a blast. And honestly the latter games found people who got a mystic in ages 1 & 2 together were really powerful. They basically always kept a presence on the board which really made it easier for them to boost stats.
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Tom Vander Velden
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ellindar wrote:

We are about 10 games in now, with a total of 12 different folks playing. I've been in every one of those games so I have a really good idea of how it tends to play out. We have had a guy who is in last place by a fairly large margin for two ages win via odin's throne in the 3rd age. But that was early play. If everyone knows the cards, what tends to happen is that if someone has taken a loki strategy and killing their guys off, they won't see another loki card in the draft unless its their opening hand. In the third age, everyone is doing their best not to pass along duplicate quests to lessen the throne. So these types of things help a lot. I have seen a straight up brute force strat win with upping all of their stats by the end, i have seen loki win, etc. They all seem valid.

Here is the one issue I see with the game, if someone is in a pretty good lead and in the third age their opening draft hand contains a card that goes along with their strategy the game is over. Nothing really anyone can do. Same goes for if a clear leader gets the throne in the last age, its probably over. So this bugs me a little... THAT said, after adding in the mystics, all the extra monsters, etc. and still only dealing out 8 cards to each player, there is now a much bigger chance certain cards won't even BE in the draft, let alone the lucky player who needs it gets it. So I feel now this has helped quite a bit.

As far as a runaway loser, I agree I have seen this in about 50% of the games so far. But honestly, it seemed like it was a person who just didn't really take any direction in the game. (tom was yours bill both times lol)

Other than that I love the game, there is a lot of decision making which is just a blast. And honestly the latter games found people who got a mystic in ages 1 & 2 together were really powerful. They basically always kept a presence on the board which really made it easier for them to boost stats.
Hey Sean, it's awesome you are enjoying the game, I figured you would. Your minis looks awesome! The big loser's in those games where me for the first game, had trouble figuring out what was good together, like you said sort of the lack of direction problem, the other game Kevin was the one left behind, in that one it really seemed like he was just the target for everyone else and just got picked on. Bill fared pretty well actually.
 
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