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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Fighting Death solo rss

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Michael Green
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In Advanced solo, if an enemy card says to do something to each other player you do it to yourself.

(Four Horsemen) Death's Fight effect says:

Each other player reveals their hand and KOs one of their Heroes that costs 1 Cost or more.

And escape has same effect on all players. So if he escapes during an advanced solo match you 'reveal' your hand (so the gameboard and cards can see them presumaby) and KO one of your non-starting Heroes.

My question is what happens if you fight him after you play all the cards in your hand?

I had previously assumed that since it talks about revealing your hand then you are immune to the effect if you have no cards left in your hand, but then I realised yesterday that it says 'KOs one of THEIR Heroes' and the core rulebook says card text phrased this way applies to both cards in your hand and cards you have already played.

So, that was a long a way of saying: if I fight him in advanced solo I have to KO a card costing 1 or more, right?
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Jem
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I'd say that yes, you have to KO someone.

The "and" separates the rule into two clauses, step 1 "reveal your hand" (which may be empty) followed by step 2 "KO one of [your] heroes that costs 1 or more".
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Ahewlett
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I believe the rule you are referring to in the rulebook is:

wrote:
If A card says to KO "one of your Heroes," that can be a Hero you've already played this turn or a Hero still in you hand.
It uses the phrase "one of your Heroes." So the card has to have that exact phrase on it to include played cards and cards in hand.

The fight and escape effect says "Each other player reveal their hand and KOs one of their Heroes that cost 1 Cost or more." It doesn't use the phrase "your Heroes" so I feel that it means that you reveal you hand and KO a Hero of 1 cost or more from the hand that you revealed. Since you played all of your cards you don't have a hand to reveal and nothing to then KO.

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Jem
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AHewlett wrote:
I believe the rule you are referring to in the rulebook is:

wrote:
If A card says to KO "one of your Heroes," that can be a Hero you've already played this turn or a Hero still in you hand.
It uses the phrase "one of your Heroes." So the card has to have that exact phrase on it to include played cards and cards in hand.

The fight and escape effect says "Each other player reveal their hand and KOs one of their Heroes that cost 1 Cost or more." It doesn't use the phrase "your Heroes" so I feel that it means that you reveal you hand and KO a Hero of 1 cost or more from the hand that you revealed. Since you played all of your cards you don't have a hand to reveal and nothing to then KO.
Except that the card is written for the multiplayer game. If you rewrote the rule to refer to yourself (as "Each other player" rules should be treated under Advanced Solo rules), the text could only logically become :

Quote:
Fight: Reveal your hand and KOs one of your Heroes that costs 1 Cost or more.
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Ahewlett
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Jemjar wrote:


Except that the card is written for the multiplayer game.
Yes the card was written for the multiplayer game. So if you and I playing and I fight Death then you have to reveal your hand and KO a 1 cost or more card from your hand. So in a solo game I reveal my hand which I don't have and therefore nothing to KO.

I believe you are reading too much into the "their" in the second part of the fight effect. The rules in the rulebook on pages 15 & 16 have specfic phrases on them in quotation marks to indicate when you as the current player must KO cards in play and "their" isn't one of them.
 
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Jem
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AHewlett wrote:
Jemjar wrote:


Except that the card is written for the multiplayer game.
Yes the card was written for the multiplayer game. So if you and I playing and I fight Death then you have to reveal your hand and KO a 1 cost or more card from your hand. So in a solo game I reveal my hand which I don't have and therefore nothing to KO.
No. Nowhere in the Death card text does it say "KO a hero from their hand" - the word hand does not appear in that clause. The phrasing is "and KOs one of their heroes that costs 1 or more".

Not, "KOs one of their heroes from their hand". Just "KOs one of their heroes".

I agree that it's somewhat implicit in the text, which was written to apply to the multiplayer game and not advanced solo play - and in multiplayer clearly "each other player" will apply only to people without active cards.

AHewlett wrote:
I believe you are reading too much into the "their" in the second part of the fight effect. The rules in the rulebook on pages 15 & 16 have specfic phrases on them in quotation marks to indicate when you as the current player must KO cards in play and "their" isn't one of them.
Can I ask everyone reading this to raise their right hand?

Did you just raise your right hand? Exactly.



Of course "their" isn't one of them. The game continually refers to the active player as "you". "Reveal your hand, then KO one of their heroes" wouldn't make sense.

Don't forget that those rules pre-date advanced solo rules in Dark City, which introduced the whole mess of applying "Each other player" rules to yourself. The DC rule sheet doesn't give specific semantics, but I don't see how "do it to yourself" doesn't translate to "make the most logical translation of the card text", including their = your.
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Darth Ed
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I agree with Jemjar. The phrase "one of their Heroes" should be treated exactly the same as "one of your Heroes". It means a Hero card that's in your/their hand or one you/they have already played on that turn. In the case of Advanced Solo Mode rules, "each other player"=you and thus "their"=your.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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This type of thing is one of the reasons I like playing solo with two or more "players".
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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How about this? In a multi-player game, if one of the other players had an Artifact in front of them that they had played on a prior turn, would you allow them to KO that instead of one of the cards in their hand?

I think they could, because it says to KO one of "their" cards, not one of "those" cards (in their hand).

So, since Death's fight effect isn't solely targeting cards in hand, then I think the solo player would also have to KO one of the cards in front of them if they had no cards in hand.
 
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Darth Ed
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randomlife wrote:
How about this? In a multi-player game, if one of the other players had an Artifact in front of them that they had played on a prior turn, would you allow them to KO that instead of one of the cards in their hand?
The Guardians of the Galaxy rules sheet says, "Card effects that say 'your Heroes' or 'Heroes you have' include Hero Artifacts you control as well." So yes.

randomlife wrote:
So, since Death's fight effect isn't solely targeting cards in hand, then I think the solo player would also have to KO one of the cards in front of them if they had no cards in hand.
Yes, of course.
 
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Jeff P
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dontfeedthegreen wrote:

I had previously assumed that since it talks about revealing your hand then you are immune to the effect if you have no cards left in your hand, but then I realised yesterday that it says 'KOs one of THEIR Heroes' and the core rulebook says card text phrased this way applies to both cards in your hand and cards you have already played.

So, that was a long a way of saying: if I fight him in advanced solo I have to KO a card costing 1 or more, right?

Keep in mind that the "reveal their hand" is mostly there so, in a multiplayer game, the other players can't cheat. It's to prevent people from having a hand full of heroes that cost 1 or more, but saying "Nope, sorry! I don't have any heroes that cost 1 or more! Don't have to KO anything."

I wouldn't read much more into it than that for a solo game, in which you can probably just ignore that part for all intents and purposes.
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JeffP300 wrote:
dontfeedthegreen wrote:

I had previously assumed that since it talks about revealing your hand then you are immune to the effect if you have no cards left in your hand, but then I realised yesterday that it says 'KOs one of THEIR Heroes' and the core rulebook says card text phrased this way applies to both cards in your hand and cards you have already played.

So, that was a long a way of saying: if I fight him in advanced solo I have to KO a card costing 1 or more, right?

Keep in mind that the "reveal their hand" is mostly there so, in a multiplayer game, the other players can't cheat. It's to prevent people from having a hand full of heroes that cost 1 or more, but saying "Nope, sorry! I don't have any heroes that cost 1 or more! Don't have to KO anything."

I wouldn't read much more into it than that for a solo game, in which you can probably just ignore that part for all intents and purposes.
Thanks for the clarification Jeff.
 
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Michael Green
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Gah! Just to muddy these waters, Devin Low replied to a question on Facebook about what this Shadow King Tactic with similar wording does in solo:

Poison their Minds
Fight: Each other player reveals their hand and chooses one of their non-grey Heroes. Shadow King Dominates those Heroes.

So based on reasoning above, in solo I would say he dominates one of my Heroes, but Devin said:
Quote:
In solo if you play your hand out before fighting this, this tactic won’t affect you. In multiplayer it will hit everyone else.
Which makes me question my original reasoning because the wording is essentially the same.

If it said ‘Each other player KOs one of their non-grey Heroes’, then I would be KOing one of my Heroes in solo, but because it asks me to reveal my hand first, I should not?
 
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What’s muddy JeffP300 who at the time was an Upper Deck rep said is his post above to ignore the their part for solo. Devin’s post on facebook is just restating that and like I said in my posts people were reading too much into the their part.
 
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Michael Green
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AHewlett wrote:
What’s muddy JeffP300 who at the time was an Upper Deck rep said is his post above to ignore the their part for solo. Devin’s post on facebook is just restating that and like I said in my posts people were reading too much into the their part.
Wow. You read Jeff’s post very differently to me. I thought he was saying that in solo you can ignore the ‘reveal your hand’ part for all intents and purposes, not that you can ignore the KO part.

You read his comment as agreeing with you, and I read his comment as agreeing with me (Nice example of confirmation bias).
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