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Cthulhu Wars» Forums » General

Subject: Game 'dilution' question rss

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Nick Bos
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Hi!

I'm thinking about pledging for more than the base game, but I wanted to ask for opinions on the neutral factions, cosmic terrors etc.

Do you feel these things 'dilute' the game experience? As far as I can read from the reviews, the game is very nicely designed with tight rules and good balance. Do you think all these extra things might increase complexity, but at the same time 'ruin' the tightness of the game?

'hiring' other monsters is something I never really liked for example in the old Warhammer, where you had dogs of war, which you could hire. Every faction had some weaknesses, but renting these guys could make up for said weaknesses, ruining a part of the flavour of the factions.

Hope I'm making my question clear, had a hard time phrasing it.
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Loig Roumois
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au contraire! The additional stuff is maybe adding a small complexity (because you have to keep their abilities in mind) but the length of the game is not altered. Even if you'd allow ALL expansions and neutral GOOs and monsters the game would still take about the same amount of time to complete. It will be more brutal and more crazy no doubt, but overall the neutrals are very cool!
They don't really balance out faction weaknesses since the factions don't really have weaknesses at all (all factions are overpowered, which makes the game so awesome!!!). They do add more ways to win or finish a game quicker, so the added complexity balances itself out with the quickened wins
I hope I could help!
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Lawrence VH
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I have yet to receive any add-ons besides the base game, so I can't comment out of my own experience, but Sandy Petersen has repeatedly stated i.e. in his design corners that your worries are exactly what he thinks about while making the game and adding to it.

As far as terrors go, it will need to be remembered which ones they are, and that they cannot be touched by certain special abilities.

You could look for people talking about the Azathoth faction to find out. In the first kickstarter, I did not buy the dreamlands monsters, but I added them to my pledge now. They are a nice addition, just like the neutral GOO's.

I believe Arthur or Sandy stated, they like to play with i.e. one less neutral GOO besides the board than the number of actual players. It's up to the players to decide whether they want to use them or not of course.
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James
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I think dilution is a problem with other games but less so with this one. In many cases the fans had been pressing Sandy to make specific fsctions and abilities but Sandy was resistent because wanted to preserve the balance. One of his design gifts is in game balancing and I think you will see that in the way the game can incorporate modded expansions. While there is the capacity for a winning combo, keep in mind that players have limited power and there is an opportunity cost in paying for any indpendent GOO or Terror. Finally, because the game involves such metagaming, if a player even appears to be becoming overpowered, then immediately become a target for all the others. The expansions offer more theme and more variety that is interchangeable with the base game, really. How much you decide you want is a question of how much those compel you. Have fun regardless!

 
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Chad S.
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I am ALL IN for this Kickstarter.

However, my gaming group doesn't play at my house, we play at other players' houses. I bring about half of the games we play in our weekly game sessions.

Regarding Cthulhu Wars, I plan on mixing it up each session. One session I might bring Terror Pack 2, the Windwalker expansion, the High Priests and the Primeval Earth map. Next session I might bring the Ramsey Campbell Monsters Pack 1, Sleeper and Tcho-Tchos, and the Library of Celeano map, and so on.

I see this as adding TONS of variety and replayability. No two sessions will be alike, and that's a good thing!

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Patrick Heron
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Hellikin wrote:
I am ALL IN for this Kickstarter.

However, my gaming group doesn't play at my house, we play at other players' houses. I bring about half of the games we play in our weekly game sessions.

Regarding Cthulhu Wars, I plan on mixing it up each session. One session I might bring Terror Pack 2, the Windwalker expansion, the High Priests and the Primeval Earth map. Next session I might bring the Ramsey Campbell Monsters Pack 1, Sleeper and Tcho-Tchos, and the Library of Celeano map, and so on.

I see this as adding TONS of variety and replayability. No two sessions will be alike, and that's a good thing!

That's a pretty good idea actually!
 
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Nathan McCullough
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I'm all in also - what I plan on doing is bring everything, but allow each player to pick one of the neutrals that are available That way they aren't all available, so we'll see how that works.

Just will need to be sure the same ones don't keep getting picked.
 
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Arthur Petersen
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The expansions are generally designed as replacements, rather than additions. Really, the term "expansion" isn't the most apt for CW.

expansion Maps replace the earth map, and you can't add them together.

Faction expansions replace one or more factions (unless you're playing with ALL on the 6-8 player maps)

High Priests DO add to it, but they are minor, and, if you ask me, an essential addition to each game. IMO they should have been a natural part of every faction from the debut. They do not slow down the game, but add to it seamlessly.

Neutral Monsters also add to it, technically. However, they still mostly operate as replacements. This is because. over the course of a game, for any given neutral monster type you gain, you're going to NOT be summoning one of your faction monster types. This is because you just won't have the Power and Action bandwidth, nor the need to do so - you are choosing that neutral monster because you want to use it instead. In other words, when you select a neutral monster, you're still following the normal CW thing of using expansions as replacements. You are certainly modifying your faction greatly.

Indie GOOs work similarly, wherein if you have one or two, you're not going to summoning all your regular monsters. You just won't need to, nor will you have the bandwidth to do so, most likely.

Hope this helps in some way!
 
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Bernard Gourion
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To be honest, more units means more rules and more units means more time needed to think carefully your next play.

So while the expansions effectively doesn't add general rules, they add specific rules linked to units and so a game CAN last longer. It can but it's mandatory as most of the expansion's rules tend to themselves accelerate the game (Play with Azathoth or Gobogeg and you will understand )

Any way to enforce a not too long game, i just introduce a special rule while playing.
- you have 2 minutes max to play your action (remember you have also X x 2 minutes while the X other players are playing their rounds) ;
- you have ONE joker to spend giving you 3 additional minutes ;
- in case, you can decide what you want to do after the time elapsed, you lose 1 PP and the next player can play.

Actually no one has ever exceeded the 2 mn duration but it helps some very slow playing friend to act in proper times
 
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Bruno Freitas
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bengougou75 wrote:
Any way to enforce a not too long game, i just introduce a special rule while playing.
- you have 2 minutes max to play your action (remember you have also X x 2 minutes while the X other players are playing their rounds) ;
- you have ONE joker to spend giving you 3 additional minutes ;
- in case, you can decide what you want to do after the time elapsed, you lose 1 PP and the next player can play.

Actually no one has ever exceeded the 2 mn duration but it helps some very slow playing friend to act in proper times
I like this, specially after I played 2 games that lasted 7 hours (4 players)!

In my game table we are going to add all expansions, but with the following rule:
- Indie GOOs: all available but the max number allowed is X-1 where x is the number of players;
- Indie Monsters and Terrors: all available but the max number allowed is X where x is the number of players;
 
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Arthur Petersen
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Analysis Paralysis!

The 4 player video on Yuggoth was like, an hour, and that had plenty of expansions.

I think that after only a few games of the core game, most players should be able to play an entire core game in 45 minutes. I think Link and I have been in 4 player games that were only 30 min.
 
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Bernard Gourion
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existoid wrote:
Analysis Paralysis!

The 4 player video on Yuggoth was like, an hour, and that had plenty of expansions.

I think that after only a few games of the core game, most players should be able to play an entire core game in 45 minutes. I think Link and I have been in 4 player games that were only 30 min.
i said 2 minutes not 2 seconds !!
 
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