ChToHe
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The rules for ships expansion in the deluxe doesn't make sense, unless I have played the basic rules incorrectly.

Original rules state that you are not allowed to place a volcanic eruption on top of an empty spot, which I assume includes a lagoon.

In fact, in the FAQ, it specifically mentions that:

All three hexes under the eruption tile must be at the same level.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/262030


Based on the ships expansion section written in the deluxe rulebook, it states that: A ship must be placed in a lagoon and once a ship is placed, it can never be covered by a volcano tile.

This to be implies that under normal circumstances, you are allowed to place a volcanic tile on top of a lagoon? Have we been playing the game wrong all this time? Can someone please help confirm?
 
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Michal Starek
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I was perplexed just the same, so just a passing comment waiting for response.

I guess the only thing where ship would make sense is creating a lagoon large enough to actually fit a tile (or more), then the ship would forbid to place the tile within. But since lagoon is only considered a lagoon when a segment of empty playing table is COMPLETELY surrounded by tiles, this is very unlikely.
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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I don't have that deluxe edition, but judging from the rules I'm in agreement with Michal's interpretation: the rule applies to 'filling in' the lagoon, not covering it (which would not be allowed under any ruleset). But I have never seen lagoons that big. Then again tile placement is relatively free, so there's nothing stopping players from attempting to create such a topology.
 
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ChToHe
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Unless I am reading the rules wrong, the ships appear to prevent placement of volcanic tiles even on a single hex lagoon. I think the example on the deluxe rule states that.

I really hope the expansion was approved by Merkle.
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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It would still be an empty spot on Level 1 of the island which could not be built over in any way. (The deluxe rules distinguish between lakes, which are printed on tiles, and lagoons, which are holes in the tile layout.) I'm not sure what your problem is at this point.
 
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ChToHe
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I understand the difference between lakes and lagoons

My point is, if tiles aren't allowed to cover lagoons, however large or small, then what is the point of the ship expansion?

The only other explanation I can think of is that ships encourage players to make lagoons so that playing ships allow them to win the game by 'survivor' end game scenario where ties for winning are broken down by temples>tower>ships>huts

 
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Michal Starek
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I think I understand.
The cases where ships prevent a new tile to be placed are going to be quite rare. (Only for actual fully-surrounded lagoons of size 3 and more hexes.) That's why the rulebook says "WHATEVER the size of the lagoon".

The ships, however, can trigger an immediate victory and on regular game end, they are still more important in tie-breaker order than huts. Still, however I love Taluva, I think I can live without this expansion.


Just to reiterate for other readers, here is the rulebook of the Deluxe version:
http://media.wix.com/ugd/92ca7d_78fcbf4d5f3c4aa6b567315baae9...
 
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ChToHe
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In the deluxe rule book, a ship is placed on a single hex tile.

Basically, if what you say is right, the only purpose for placing the ship there in a single hex is to hasten the trigger for end game where you have to place two of your four structures down or to win tie breakers.

I think I agree with your interpretations. However, I think the way the rules were written, led me to believe that the primary purpose of placing ships in lagoons is to prevent covering by volcano tiles.

The rule which states:

- "A ship can never be covered by a volcano tile" is redundant because whether a ship is present or not, the empty lagoon itself cannot be covered by a volcano tile.

If what you say is right then the ship expansion will change game play dramatically with players trying to actively form lagoons for ship placement. It just might be worthwhile for me to find some ships and try to play it.

 
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James R. Gracen
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I'm about two years late to the table on this one, but here goes...

toucana wrote:
In the deluxe rule book, a ship is placed on a single hex tile.
No. A Ship is placed in a lagoon, which is basically a hole in the surrounding tiles. There can be no tile beneath a Ship. The lagoon can be any size, as long as it is entirely surrounded by tiles of level-1 or higher.

Think of it like this: a Ship must be placed on level-zero.

toucana wrote:
Basically, if what you say is right, the only purpose for placing the ship there in a single hex is to hasten the trigger for end game where you have to place two of your four structures down or to win tie breakers.
Correct. Ships are another building type that can be played to end the game in a "King" victory (where you place all pieces of two different types). In fact, most games I play tend to end in a "King" victory, rather than a "Survivor" victory (where the stack of tiles runs out), or even a "World's End" victory (where a player is unable to place their tile in hand, having run out of space on the Deluxe Edition game board). When I do play with the Ship expansion, I generally find that the game tends to end in a "King" victory with Ships being one of the two types of pieces completely played.

In our game earlier this evening, we played on the "Expert" side of the game board. The winner played both of their Ships and both of their Towers to earn a "King" victory.

If our game had ended in us running out of tiles (unlikely given the constraints of the "Expert" side of the game board), or more likely, ended in a "World's End" victory, the Ships would have been a tiebreaker to determine the victor, as the tiebreaker order goes Temples > Towers > Ships > Huts.

toucana wrote:
"A ship can never be covered by a volcano tile" is redundant because whether a ship is present or not, the empty lagoon itself cannot be covered by a volcano tile.
Correct again.

toucana wrote:
I think I agree with your interpretations. However, I think the way the rules were written, led me to believe that the primary purpose of placing ships in lagoons is to prevent covering by volcano tiles.
Not quite correct. I believe the rule was only spelled out because it was also spelled out for both Temples and Towers, neither of which can be covered by a volcanic eruption either. Huts are the only pieces which specifically *can* be covered. But, as you say, since a lagoon can never be covered, then obviously a Ship can never be covered.

toucana wrote:
If what you say is right then the ship expansion will change game play dramatically with players trying to actively form lagoons for ship placement. It just might be worthwhile for me to find some ships and try to play it.
Exactly! While I think adding in the Ships tends to throw off the balance between the other three building types, I do *occasionally* like to play with them. It changes things up a bit and adds variety.

TIP: If you *do* play with the Ships expansion, I suggest using the game board on "Player" (Intermediate), or "Expert" mode. I wouldn't play it on "Beginner" mode or without the board at all, as it would then be too easy to form lagoons and play your two Ships, as the island would tend to spread outwards more, and upwards less. This, in turn, would make it more difficult to build Towers and multiple Huts.

I hope this answers any remaining questions you may have.
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