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Subject: Torn on the KS rss

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reaching out from the in-between spaces...
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Baldwin
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I'm all in with Myth, and enjoy the card based gameplay. SDE seems closest to Myth with the idea of clearing a tile of Lairs/Spawn Points.

As a solo player, Arcade mode is what I would play. Shadows of Brimstone's lackluster combat system has me thinking twice about getting another Dungeon Explorer. The mini's look great in the current KS and I *think* there's good value here.

It's some of the comments concerning Arcade mode that prevents me from backing. It appears that some who enjoy the game accept the issues with the game and just house rule to *fix it*. There's issues with the Explore deck, and apparently a first tile rush in arcade mode. Comments about the game becoming a grind and outlasting it's welcome have been mentioned. Some claim that the designers are better mini makers than actual game designers. I'd want a solid game first, quality components second.

It's also not clear to me how NPC's and Pets work in the game.

What are some of your thoughts on this?

Jorune

 
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Frank Franco
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Jorune wrote:
I'm all in with Myth, and enjoy the card based gameplay. SDE seems closest to Myth with the idea of clearing a tile of Lairs/Spawn Points.

As a solo player, Arcade mode is what I would play. Shadows of Brimstone's lackluster combat system has me thinking twice about getting another Dungeon Explorer. The mini's look great in the current KS and I *think* there's good value here.

It's some of the comments concerning Arcade mode that prevents me from backing. It appears that some who enjoy the game accept the issues with the game and just house rule to *fix it*. There's issues with the Explore deck, and apparently a first tile rush in arcade mode. Comments about the game becoming a grind and outlasting it's welcome have been mentioned. Some claim that the designers are better mini makers than actual game designers. I'd want a solid game first, quality components second.

It's also not clear to me how NPC's and Pets work in the game.

What are some of your thoughts on this?

Jorune

Arcade mode is great with a couple of incredibly minor house rules (which I suspect some may be addressed in the revision of the 2.0 rules.)
I'm a bit baffled by the hate this game is attracting to be honest, it seems to get cained where far inferior games get a pass. I've gotten to the point I just accept it and can't be arsed arguing it.
For me it is one of the more strategic 'dungeon crawls' out there.
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Cat O\'Mighty
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NPCs are new with Legends, we'll find out how they work when we start seeing the written material. To date, they are all sculpts of SPM staffers.

Pets were introduced in Forgotten King. They are essentially helpful 'treasures' that you can find, sort of like familiars. In Legends, there will be some mechanism whereby characters can just purchase a pet.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Super Dungeon Explore has a few things throughout its life that are pretty much verboten in the Boardgamegeek mindset. No I am not trying to open the old can of worms here but the BGG user base has a very strong lean when it comes to game play mechanics, play time, and a proposed major no-no in player elimination.

1: SDE is a game system not a game in a box - Sure it is fun to play once or twice with just a single core box but half the fun is each team "Building their army" for lack of better term. If you expect to have fun 10 games from now with just the base box, well it's just not going to happen. Mix in some different spawn points, multiple mini-bosses, versus a large pool of heroes and you have the games strength.

2: Randomness, the game uses dice which isn't inherently bad but it also has the randomness of cards. Some games you are going to get all the right loot for your heroes and some games your going to flounder.

3: The game can run long with downtime and if it isn't your turn their isn't much to do except scarf popcorn. For those without some mindset that they need to be plugged into the game every living second this is hardly a problem but a 5 hero game is basically going to be your only game for the night.

4: It requires both teams to really understand their own respective forces and use them to your utmost ability. There is a reason why the Dragon is a great boss for a dungeon with mobs who have fire causing effects. There is also a great reason why you want someone who can carry more than 1 potion, someone who can take hits, and someone who can blow stuff up from afar. This is miniatures gaming knowledge 101 and a no brainer for mini's gamers but not for board gamers.

5: Image also seems to be a big stickler and the SD (Super Deformed) look of the characters seems to tick some kind of rage gear in some gamers.

In my mind those are some of the perceptions holding it down on this website. Check out Dakka Dakka for a more mini friendly website or something similar.

To get up on a soapbox here I like BGG but I would never read a review or even rely on BGG for any kind of information for any mini's centric game. It's like asking a whino to recommend a fine wine.

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zee ogre
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I'm also all-in on Myth; in fact, I got in to Myth because my 1st edition copy of SDE didn't have co-op mode, and the Myth KS1 came at an opportune time. My experience teaching SDE sort of prepared me for the Myth rulebook, heh.

I didn't have the discretionary funds or the urge to eat ramen to afford Forgotten King, SDE unfortunately doesn't hit the table very often with Myth around as my group prefers the co-op experience.

I'm in to the SDE Legends KS at 1$ in the hope that I'll get a chance to read the 2nd edition co-op rules and decide on it before their pledge manager closes.

Right now, I'm somewhat annoyed by the lack of a pledge level to support a 1st edition SDE owner like me - if there'd been a pledge where I didn't have to get duplicate minis and could just add the Legends stuff with stretch goals and some addon baddies, I'd be in at that level regardless of rules.
 
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Paul Chamberland
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Read through the Time to say goodbye thread to understand the negatives of SDE gameplay.

Also, take a look at the value of the Legends KS. There are a lot of NPCs, pets, and alternate sex characters in the stretch goals that have little game play value. The Forgotten King KS was a much better deal (although FK was a blind bet since SPM gave few details about Arcade Mode while the KS was running).

You can also look at the Sword & Sorcery KS (about to end) and Perdition's Mouth KS (about to start) for dungeon crawlers that might fit your needs.

Personally, I'm all in on Myth. I was a day one backer of Forgotten King (based on fan comments during the Arcadia Quest KS), but dropped the last day due to no information on Arcade Mode. From what I've read about FK the last few months, I'm happy I made that decision.
 
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Brian Torrens
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I'm also an "all-in" Myth backer, but I just did so at the Journeyman level so I am still waiting for my copy of the core game (shipping soon, yay). I also have Descent 1st and 2nd edition, and I have backed Middara and Folklore, so you can tell, I enjoy my fantasy adventure games.

I picked up SDE 1st edition when it initially appeared in retail stores and I backed the Forgotten King Kickstarter and I'm all in on Legends. I will agree with the above statements that this game seems to get much more hate than it deserves. The game is a lot of fun and I particularly enjoy the Arcade Mode (co-op) version. As for downtime, when you are playing co-op, there is a lot of strategy discussion and there even when it is not your turn, you can still help move the monsters when they activate. As for house rules, everyone will tell you something slightly different which to me says, that people modify the game to suit the tastes of their gaming group. In most cases, the house rules players suggest seem pretty minor but the game is fun as it is. I also agree that having some variety of monsters and heroes helps the replay value of the game. I know that some players just select monsters and heroes randomly (which can lead to some really difficult scenarios).

I do think that Legends will add a lot to this game. Between allowing you to play a campaign with character growth and also throwing in more RPG elements into the game will give it a much longer lifespan.
 
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MSgt Keats
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I bought my wife SDE first edition for her birthday and played the dark console to great effect, it was an exciting game but I always wanted the good guys to win. Stupid lawful good alignment. I picked up all the expansions and single hero / villain boxes. I had a blast painting everything, I love painting chibis, the big faces are great for details. Then FK came out promising no more hoping the other side won and I bought all of the things offered.
Arcade mode isn't as challenging as a real opponent, it never could or should be, but throwing Captain R on the first tile with tough and his high AC is a challenge.
Buy in while you still can, it's a great value and a great game. My one and only complaint is the game is very long, last 4 hero game lasted almost 4 hours. I did add a little length to it by accidently adding a fourth mini boss when there should only be 3 in a 4 hero game, but that only added a few minutes by the end of the game. The mighty monster chart does a good job of keeping the enemies challenging.
Even with AI, you can pair spawn points that work together for a challenge.
 
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Guilly Berto
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A lot of people thought the game would get better with FK, but in the minds of many it got worse. So between this and that there is now a perception that Soda Pop can't design, test, and refine a game. Too bad they don't have someone like Eric Lang to work on these games for them. I definitely wouldn't recommend kicking it unless you have played and like a previous version. Everything will be available at retail later. For the game to work well it has to be house ruled, and a lot of people just don't like dealing with that. I personally don't mind, but for a longish mini-based dice chucker I would much rather play Zombicide (which I also house rule based on the ignorant targeting priority rules). That is when I am not playing 40k of course, which strangely doesn't get house ruled at all. We have never felt the need even though it is much more complex than anything we are discussing here.
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Davi Rosa
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From the Dungeons and Dragons 80's cartoon. If only it was remade...
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I tried houseruling the game a lot at first. But, the more I play - the more I get used to the mechanics - the less I feel like changing it much. Of course, they offer some variants at the end of the game, and I use some of them depending on the group I am playing with.

But to those concerned about other things in the game, such as game lenth, the new Legends offers some adventures with different objectives and shorter game time. meeple
 
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