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Subject: PvP rss

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David Williams
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I know this has been mentioned a few times but with quite a lot of people concerned about oportunities for direct interaction between characters (rather than by controlling monsters in combat) I was hoping someone could clarify the PvP situation.

From everything I have read so far it seems PvP is not mentioned in the rules at all. The only mention is on Corbin's character ability, which apparently reads as follows:

Quote:
Bounty Hunting: Once per hero per game, you may spend one action to challenge an undefeated hero in your hex. Fight until a hero is defeated. If you defeat another hero, gain 2 gold and 1 combat trophy.
It seems PvP combat is identical to monster combat, which I like. What confuses me is that it seems only 1 character is able to initiate PvP, because there's no mention of it in the rules. If that's the case it seems odd as he could in principle attack people without fear of retribution.

Is this accurate? Seems like something many people will house rule to make a bit less one-sided, by having the same limitations but adding some reward for the winner in addition to Corbin's special reward.
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Donny Schuijers
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This game removed a lot of penalties that the 2nd edition has. Like: Being defeated in combat is not a 'big deal' now. It just slows you down for 1-2 actions, instead of losing gold and experience.
Same goes for PvP. Instead of robbing someone from a precious item or his gold, PvP is just not enabled in the game.

3rd Edition is 'harder' in the sence that acquiring Gold and Skills is more time-worthy. That being sad: If PvP were to be enabled, it'd be a big bite of your combat-stats when you would lose, since you would probably lose an item, which means you lose a disk, perhaps a skill, perhaps gold (since every item is worth its resell price).

With all the changes, and a non-linear progress system: PvP would be unforgiving and brutal in the set of rules that 3rd Edition has right now.

(Non-linear as in: In 2nd edition you would just start fighting Green monsters and work your way up, while in this edition you probably don't want to Combat, but start grinding some Quests and Social Events first, but you could do it anyway you want, focusing on Gold, Trophies or Travel)
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David Williams
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OK, so that all said...

Forgive me if I missed something you said but are you confirming PvP is definitely not in the rules except for Corbin's ability?

I also noticed something I missed - Corbin can only challenge each hero once, so his ability is more limited than I thought. On reflection I think that's a good thing as otherwise PvP would be a 'strong get stronger' mechanism and potentially cause very one-sided games. And this does further support my impression this is the only PvP currently allowed in the rules, and if it were to be included as an option for others the same limitation should apply.

I don't think we need to assume a loss would necessarily cost anything except for taking damage and being defeated, resulting in lost time. Winning need only grant the winner a trophy, gold, card draw, free action or something else which is generated rather than exchanged between players.

So all that said, it seems the only interaction between heroes is in the form of acquiring something they also wanted, e.g. beating them to town and buying the cool item you knew they wanted. I can live with this situation as I knew this wasn't a heavily interactive game, but it does seem odd and I can't help feeling I'm missing something?
 
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You're correct on Corbin.

The point is that the game is asymmetric. This means that there are different paths to have your heroes prepare for the final boss, and during gameplay, characters naturally combat oriented could have quite an edge against non-combat oriented characters. In my opinion, if a PvP option were fully implemented, then some characters could be problematic (that's also the reason I believe Corbin was capped to one). In any case, this can be easily fixed by houseruling you may spend an action in a hex containing another hero to start a combat against him
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Interesting, but I suppose it was rare for us to PvP in 2nd Ed anyway.

I follow the "once per hero" and "per game" in this quote from Corbin.

But why does is specify "undefeated hero"? Does a hero enter a "defeated" state for a turn, until they reset after losing a combat or something? Or does it mean that if a hero has been defeated in combat with any enemy at least once already in this game, Corbin cannot use "Bounty Hunting" against them?

Apologies if that doesn't make any sense - haven't seen the rules yet.

Quote:
Bounty Hunting: Once per hero per game, you may spend one action to challenge an undefeated hero in your hex. Fight until a hero is defeated. If you defeat another hero, gain 2 gold and 1 combat trophy.
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Phil Thompson
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Pudsy wrote:
Interesting, but I suppose it was rare for us to PvP in 2nd Ed anyway.

I follow the "once per hero" and "per game" in this quote from Corbin.

But why does is specify "undefeated hero"? Does a hero enter a "defeated" state for a turn, until they reset after losing a combat or something? Or does it mean that if a hero has been defeated in combat with any enemy at least once already in this game, Corbin cannot use "Bounty Hunting" against them?

Apologies if that doesn't make any sense - haven't seen the rules yet.

Quote:
Bounty Hunting: Once per hero per game, you may spend one action to challenge an undefeated hero in your hex. Fight until a hero is defeated. If you defeat another hero, gain 2 gold and 1 combat trophy.
From memory, a defeated i.e.zero health hero can only rest as an action to recover health. As soon as they do this they are undefeated and can proceed normally. Wilderness healing involves matching current terrain with the terrain dice, so more difficult in mountains etc.

Also from memory, the rulebook mentions other ways to challenge heroes, so possibly by item, event or skill. ( I haven't had time to review all the cards yet ).

Regarding PvP, this hardly ever happened with us in 2nd Ed so I don't think we will miss it too much. I think it would best be made available by a specific scenario so players could choose it if they wished.

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Chris J Davis
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I can confirm that, although there are rules for PvP (in the Rules Reference Guide), they are "disabled" by default. You can only challenge other heroes if an ability allows it, and there are some quests that allow it.
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Derek T
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PvP is not a general part of the game, and you can only engage using special abilities, like Corbin or a quest that tells you to go whoop up on your friends.
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Phil Thompson
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I think a PvP only scenario in which the heroes get to face off against each other rather than a master villain would be pretty cool. Some sort of arena themed storyline - maybe even team based like GF9's Spartacus expansion.

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Pudsy wrote:
Interesting, but I suppose it was rare for us to PvP in 2nd Ed anyway.

I follow the "once per hero" and "per game" in this quote from Corbin.

But why does is specify "undefeated hero"? Does a hero enter a "defeated" state for a turn, until they reset after losing a combat or something? Or does it mean that if a hero has been defeated in combat with any enemy at least once already in this game, Corbin cannot use "Bounty Hunting" against them?

Apologies if that doesn't make any sense - haven't seen the rules yet.

Quote:
Bounty Hunting: Once per hero per game, you may spend one action to challenge an undefeated hero in your hex. Fight until a hero is defeated. If you defeat another hero, gain 2 gold and 1 combat trophy.
A hero is in a "defeated" state if he has damage equal to his health. While defeated, a hero can only perform Rest actions until his damage is reduced and therefore becomes undefeated again.

Corbin cannot challenge heroes who are currently defeated.
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David Williams
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OK plenty of great interesting and helpful replies!

I didn't mean necessarily that it is a problem, it just wasn't what I expected. It's good to know there are rules for it, although the base scenarios don't use them which is also fine, I can see why it wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for all the reasons suggested.

That said I hope there are some events etc. which allow challenges, this means players will occasionally have the option to be more confrontational without it getting out of control.
 
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Derek T
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Orion3T wrote:
OK plenty of great interesting and helpful replies!

I didn't mean necessarily that it is a problem, it just wasn't what I expected. It's good to know there are rules for it, although the base scenarios don't use them which is also fine, I can see why it wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for all the reasons suggested.

That said I hope there are some events etc. which allow challenges, this means players will occasionally have the option to be more confrontational without it getting out of control.
You can run into events that push you towards PvP. Keeps it a part of the game, and by having it come up at random, you're no longer a jerk to your friends by fighting them.
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David Williams
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bl1y wrote:
You can run into events that push you towards PvP. Keeps it a part of the game, and by having it come up at random, you're no longer a jerk to your friends by fighting them.
Yeah I get it, this seems like a decent approach to me.

The fact it's specifically called for by the game and rewarded might even mean that despite not being 'enabled' in general, it could happen more often than it used to.
 
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Clayton Threadgill
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Incarnadyne wrote:
I think a PvP only scenario in which the heroes get to face off against each other rather than a master villain would be pretty cool. Some sort of arena themed storyline - maybe even team based like GF9's Spartacus expansion.
There's always a chance that FFG will adapt the Crown of the Elder Kings scenario from 2e. By 3e's rules, it would basically be that after the time track ends its 2nd run through, all PvP is turned on and the last man standing wins.
 
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Marco Hoehener
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hooliganj wrote:
Incarnadyne wrote:
I think a PvP only scenario in which the heroes get to face off against each other rather than a master villain would be pretty cool. Some sort of arena themed storyline - maybe even team based like GF9's Spartacus expansion.
There's always a chance that FFG will adapt the Crown of the Elder Kings scenario from 2e. By 3e's rules, it would basically be that after the time track ends its 2nd run through, all PvP is turned on and the last man standing wins.
Fall of the Dark Star has a PVP-ending.

We house-ruled it, that you can always challenge another player (doesn't matter if you have a quest or social card with the respective rumor on it). the winner steals one trophy from the defeated player and gets 3 gold from the supply.

but we found out that normally you really are better of doing your quests and trying to prepare for the endboss then chasing the other players around the board.
 
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David Williams
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mhoehener wrote:
We house-ruled it, that you can always challenge another player (doesn't matter if you have a quest or social card with the respective rumor on it). the winner steals one trophy from the defeated player and gets 3 gold from the supply.
Doesn't that sort of invalidate Corbin's ability to attack people? I actually got to play him in a 3p game the other week and really enjoyed having this option. It's good because he can attack when it suits him (they are injured and he isn't) and the reward is as good as beating a typical monster.

It would be a shame to invalidate it, if we were going to allow PvP I would suggest at least letting him get that as an extra reward for the first PvP he wins.
 
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