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Subject: How Long Does a Turn Take (thematically)? rss

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7 of 8
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Thematically speaking, if you consider how this game is about galactic expansion that could take years to develop. How long would a turn take?

In my opinion, I think it would take about 8 years. Since most games I have played seem to last about 6-8 turns, a game could last 48 to 64 years.

I know this is an unusual question but the game is so thematic and such an epic story, this is part of framing that story.
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Just to give some perspective to this time discussion: from the Wright Brothers first 15 second flight in 1904 to the Appollo moon landing in 1969, took 65 years.
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Dennis de Vries
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Ah, doctor, that aneasthetic is perfect!
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Interesting thoughts. As I see the game: interstellar flight already exists in some form. Then the question is: how long will it take to find habitable/terraformable worlds and how long will it take to develop some 'developments'. And are you talking about earth years or 'galactic years' or lightyears...?
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freedfromthematrix2 wrote:
Thematically speaking, if you consider how this game is about galactic expansion that could take years to develop. How long would a turn take?

In my opinion, I think it would take about 8 years. Since most games I have played seem to last about 6-8 turns, a game could last 48 to 64 years.

I know this is an unusual question but the game is so thematic and such an epic story, this is part of framing that story.
While teaching and developing the game I sometimes would say that a turn is about a year, and each die represents about a billion sentients.

But I don't think I actually did any serious calculations as to how long it would, say, take 3 billion sentients to establish a Galactic Resort.

I suppose I never actually specified how long a year was. Maybe they're Jovian years.

In real life, Epsilon Eridani b appears to be a gas giant with a year of about 2500 Earth days, and Alpha Centauri Bb appears to be a bit bigger than Earth with a year of about 78 Earth hours.
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A turn takes a generation.

Your workers are born with natural talents (rolled), trained (assigned) either in their natural field or forced into another (reassign), work (used) then die (sent to citizenry). Sometime they leave a legacy (colonised planets, researched technologies, produced goods); sometimes their work comes to nothing (phase not activated), but they at least lay the foundation for future generations (die returned to cup).
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Menghini wrote:
Interesting thoughts. As I see the game: interstellar flight already exists in some form. Then the question is: how long will it take to find habitable/terraformable worlds and how long will it take to develop some 'developments'. And are you talking about earth years or 'galactic years' or lightyears...?


Your comment about length of development and technological advancement really frame to entire conversation. If we are talking Genesis Device from Star Trek II than the game would be a 5 year mission.

Earth year = 365 days
Galactic year = 250 million years
Light year = 300,000 kilometers (186,000 miles) per second (not time but distance)


onigame wrote:
While teaching and developing the game I sometimes would say that a turn is about a year, and each die represents about a billion sentients.

But I don't think I actually did any serious calculations as to how long it would, say, take 3 billion sentients to establish a Galactic Resort.

I suppose I never actually specified how long a year was. Maybe they're Jovian years.

In real life, Epsilon Eridani b appears to be a gas giant with a year of about 2500 Earth days, and Alpha Centauri Bb appears to be a bit bigger than Earth with a year of about 78 Earth hours.
Jovian year is 11.86 earth years...thats not a bad measure of a turn.cool


Elric of Grans wrote:
A turn takes a generation.

Your workers are born with natural talents (rolled), trained (assigned) either in their natural field or forced into another (reassign), work (used) then die (sent to citizenry). Sometime they leave a legacy (colonised planets, researched technologies, produced goods); sometimes their work comes to nothing (phase not activated), but they at least lay the foundation for future generations (die returned to cup).
Interesting thought. A generation measured by historians is around 25 years. A biblical generation is 70-80years. Through your fantastic thematic description of the well crafted game elements what you seemed to describe was a biblical generation.

Based on what has been discussed 25 years would work well but when taking into account technological advancement the Jovian year 11.86 would be most appropriate. Rounding up 12 years sounds like it would be the appropriate length of time for a turn.

An average game going 6 to 8 rounds would be 72 to 96 years. A really good time frame for such a sweeping epic tale of galactic empire building. Between 3 to 5 generations of a space epic.
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I love this kind of stuff. Thank you those who've speculated, and Wei-Hwa for weighing in.

How do we factor Production & Shipping into this? I can believe it takes 12 years to settle a world or put a new technology into general use, but does it take 12 years to bring a mining operation, product or farm into production, or 12 years to make a profit or use it to improve quality of life? The "one-off" nature of the payback from Trade/Consume makes it a bit tricky to think of it as a generational event.

Since this is a Race, albeit a Rolling one, I think I might prefer to think of turns as approximately Earth years, and everything moving at a breakneck pace. Scouts are dispatched in every direction, using primitive jumpdrive precursor technology, warping back with fevered tales of encounters with alien sentinels and lost fleets. No sooner does someone find a way to make a self-replicating robot, than swarms of them are unleashed on nearby worlds to frantically terraform them. A population desperately racing for the stars settles colonies on world after world. Worlds are stripped of their windfall goods, sold off and used to fuel the ever-accelerating engine of galactic expansion.
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greylag wrote:
I love this kind of stuff. Thank you those who've speculated, and Wei-Hwa for weighing in.

How do we factor Production & Shipping into this? I can believe it takes 12 years to settle a world or put a new technology into general use, but does it take 12 years to bring a mining operation, product or farm into production, or 12 years to make a profit or use it to improve quality of life? The "one-off" nature of the payback from Trade/Consume makes it a bit tricky to think of it as a generational event.
Think of Production and Shipping as developing or innovating a technology, process or a discovering a new rare mineral that has or will hit its peak profitability within the time frame of twelve years. When it hits it's peak it will contribute to the gross domestic production of the society and planet.

Here is a relivant example, the iPhone. It was created in 2007 and quickly changed the entire mobile phone and the technology industry as a whole within 8 years. Mobile phones became smart phones followed by tablets, as larger smart phones, starting to replace computers and laptops for the general consumer. These innovations and their production really are a crucial part of the world's GDP. Without the ramped-up (and dangerous) production of rare earth minerals from China this wouldn't be possible. Because of the increase production China has seen a boom in their economy. The same with the parts manufactures (chip makers), app makers (mobile games recently selling for billions of dollars) and the rest of the world's consumers. It's being integrated in all facets of business and life and thus becoming one of the world's crucial drivers of the tech economy...within 12 years.

This is a small example of how a Production and Shipping action (consumption and trade) can produce enough money within a 12 year time frame to affect the world's economy and fit within the narrative of the story.

greylag wrote:
Since this is a Race, albeit a Rolling one, I think I might prefer to think of turns as approximately Earth years, and everything moving at a breakneck pace. Scouts are dispatched in every direction, using primitive jumpdrive precursor technology, warping back with fevered tales of encounters with alien sentinels and lost fleets. No sooner does someone find a way to make a self-replicating robot, than swarms of them are unleashed on nearby worlds to frantically terraform them. A population desperately racing for the stars settles colonies on world after world. Worlds are stripped of their windfall goods, sold off and used to fuel the ever-accelerating engine of galactic expansion.
This is also a narrative. Remember the 12 years is an estimate. It could be slightly faster or slower. If 1 die= 1 billion people how fast could 3 billion or 6 billion get the same job done?

I think for telling this story, 12 years a turn for a century long epic is most fitting.
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I'm in the one-generation-per-turn camp, where a generation is the time from when someone is born until they have offspring of their own.

Can you settle a planet in a decade or so? Maybe, but it takes a lot longer before it's a fully productive member of your empire. Likewise, from when you introduce a new technology or social development until it comes to full fruition can take a long time.

Of course, with the medical and technological advances a generation may not actually be a generation anymore, but that's a different issue.
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AndersGabrielsson wrote:
I'm in the one-generation-per-turn camp, where a generation is the time from when someone is born until they have offspring of their own.

Can you settle a planet in a decade or so? Maybe, but it takes a lot longer before it's a fully productive member of your empire. Likewise, from when you introduce a new technology or social development until it comes to full fruition can take a long time.

Of course, with the medical and technological advances a generation may not actually be a generation anymore, but that's a different issue.
Plus, was it ever established that these were humans? They could be humanoids for all we know.
 
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ackmondual wrote:
Plus, was it ever established that these were humans? They could be humanoids for all we know.
Going by the art, some are human (or look very much like humans) and some not.
 
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After a year away from this conversation I thought it is time to revisit this with some of the game elements brought in by the Ambition expansion that answer all the left open questions

AndersGabrielsson wrote:

Can you settle a planet in a decade or so? Maybe, but it takes a lot longer before it's a fully productive member of your empire. Likewise, from when you introduce a new technology or social development until it comes to full fruition can take a long time.

Of course, with the medical and technological advances a generation may not actually be a generation anymore, but that's a different issue.
ackmondual wrote:
Plus, was it ever established that these were humans? They could be humanoids for all we know.
AndersGabrielsson wrote:

Going by the art, some are human (or look very much like humans) and some not.
greylag wrote:

How do we factor Production & Shipping into this? I can believe it takes 12 years to settle a world or put a new technology into general use, but does it take 12 years to bring a mining operation, product or farm into production, or 12 years to make a profit or use it to improve quality of life? The "one-off" nature of the payback from Trade/Consume makes it a bit tricky to think of it as a generational event.

Since this is a Race, albeit a Rolling one, I think I might prefer to think of turns as approximately Earth years, and everything moving at a breakneck pace. Scouts are dispatched in every direction, using primitive jumpdrive precursor technology, warping back with fevered tales of encounters with alien sentinels and lost fleets. No sooner does someone find a way to make a self-replicating robot, than swarms of them are unleashed on nearby worlds to frantically terraform them. A population desperately racing for the stars settles colonies on world after world. Worlds are stripped of their windfall goods, sold off and used to fuel the ever-accelerating engine of galactic expansion.
After breaking out this game and falling in love with it all over again, as I reread the rules, the Talent Counters from Ambition explain it all.

Talent Counters are wild cards. They can represent any number of things from machine or drone workers to alliances to the swing of fortune. It can represent time and/or resources for tech advancements that allow society to advance faster than anticipated.

Does this answer the question "How long, in Earth years, does a turn take"?

I think it gives a reason to add variance to that answer. So none of us are wrong who believe its between 12 and 25 years. I still believe 12 but its fun to debate.


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