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Labyrinth: The War on Terror, 2001 – ?» Forums » General

Subject: Labyrinth 3rd Printing rss

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James Resner
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P500 status shows only 121? Seriously?

At this rate it will be years before it ship
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Allen J
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There have been a couple on ebay recently for very reasonable prices.
Keep an eye out, the supply isn't to bad yet.
 
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James Resner
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allensaurusrex wrote:
There have been a couple on ebay recently for very reasonable prices.
Keep an eye out, the supply isn't to bad yet.
eBay copies are $100 plus and marketplace copies are $60 used.

I consider all of those unreasonable.
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Fee Weasel
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Rochambeaux wrote:
P500 status shows only 121? Seriously?

At this rate it will be years before it ship

I don't think the P500 works the same way for reprints as it does for new games. With GMT looking at releasing an expansion to this game I think a reprint will happen sooner than later.
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Volko Ruhnke
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... and GMT is looking for a production slot for that expansion, Labyrinth: The Awakening, 2010 – ?, now, as development on the project is complete. Volko
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Jules Garside
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Volko wrote:
... and GMT is looking for a production slot for that expansion, Labyrinth: The Awakening, 2010 – ?, now, as development on the project is complete. Volko
Kickstart it Volko if that is possible.

All of us who play your games will buy it - without the need for any "stretch goals"
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Volko Ruhnke
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Thanks Jules!

Labyrinth:Awakening (excellently designed by Trevor Bender, by the way) has earned its way on P500 (and then some, thanks all for the support!), so no need for Kickstarter, just what're does it make sense next in GMT's long queue of products they want to get out the door. I'm hoping the next GMT monthly update will have a month slotted for it...

Cheers! Volko
 
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James Resner
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Volko wrote:
Thanks Jules!

Labyrinth:Awakening (excellently designed by Trevor Bender, by the way) has earned its way on P500 (and then some, thanks all for the support!), so no need for Kickstarter, just what're does it make sense next in GMT's long queue of products they want to get out the door. I'm hoping the next GMT monthly update will have a month slotted for it...

Cheers! Volko
The expansion is all well and good for those that are lucky enough to have the base game but there's a LOT of us who don't and won't pay 2x or 3x the MSRP for a used copy
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Volko Ruhnke
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Yes, which is why Fee Weasel's reply to you above is apt.
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James Resner
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Volko wrote:
Yes, which is why Fee Weasel's reply to you above is apt.
So you're saying sign up for the P500 for both and just hope the base game gets reprinted before the expansion?

 
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Volko Ruhnke
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Sign up for either or neither, as you like. I am saying that FW's reasoning is on point that it is likely to be far less than years before LABYRINTH reprints. vfr
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Ben Bosmans
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Volko wrote:
... and GMT is looking for a production slot for that expansion, Labyrinth: The Awakening, 2010 – ?, now, as development on the project is complete. Volko
Labyrinth is my number 1 game. And an expansion is a no brainer to acquire it.

The problem these days though is that EU players will not buy it on P-500 because of the extreme costs of importing it into Europe.

That's a serious problem at the moment for GMT.

At one hand the US markets seem to have enough copies around but other parts of the world simply are waiting for a reprint but can't (don't) pre order on the P-500.

I think GMT is well aware of it , but ... I don't think they realise or estimate just how big the "gaps" really are.

It leads to extreme prices in other second hand games too, which is not really healthy either.

---

As an example I take the Battle for Normandy. That game hovered around 120 (?) copies too on the P-500 and now that Bill decided they would even take it off the list, the game (which I really wanted) is simply priced out of the market with prices over 250-300 bucks and rising further every month.

A solution could be a printing/ordering per continent perhaps. I don't know ...

But it is quite annoying that such a good rather "new" game from the top 50 of wargames is not available for years due to an old P-500 system which no longer represents the GLOBAL interest for these specific games.

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James Resner
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Ben_Bos wrote:

At one hand the US markets seem to have enough copies around
That's where you are wrong. I've been looking for a copy for months and the only ones that come up are used and easily 2X+ the *retail* price.

There's a lot of potential business being lost to the inflated used copy market.
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Volko Ruhnke
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True truths, and you are right that GMT is well aware of them. They have tried to find and work with with European producers, for example.

But in the case of LABYRINTH and LABYRINTH:Awakening, reliance on P500 is not the cause of any delay (the latter title has over 1,200 preorders, while reprints typically do not require a set number of preorders because the market for them is already proven).

The hang up rather is an already full production queue, the rate of which is limited by GMT's overall cash on hand, not the absence of European preorders.

I don't have inside info on the schedule for 2016, but I am optimistic that both LABYRINTH and LABYRINTH:Awakening will see print this coming year.

Thanks for the interest and support! Volko
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James Resner
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Volko wrote:
(the latter title has over 1,200 preorders,

the rate of which is limited by GMT's overall cash on hand, not the absence of European preorders. Volko
But if they have 1,200+ preorders through teh P500 then technically they have the cash "guaranteed" right? Pre-order requires payment info. I know it's not charged until close to shipping but unless they get a huge rate of payment defaults on P500 something doesn't add up here.

Or is this the case where GMT has spread themselves too thin over too many projects and/or operates under an old school business model?



 
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Evil Bob
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From my understanding, the printers only have so many slots available for print runs. GMT has committed to printing other games BEFORE this reprint. They would need to bump another project in order to add this to their current production schedule.

Although a big presence in the wargaming industry, GMT is still a fairly small company. They don't have enough funds and/or manpower to manage the production of all the p500s right away otherwise they would have already done so. I believe that getting a print run started require some capital as well so although it's nice to have promises that customers will buy when the printing is complete, the printers won't accept promises as collateral.

Check out the GMT newsletter on GMT's website for more info as to what's currently in the pipeline for printing. It's a general forecast but gives a good indication of how far down the road a given project is and when we can expect projects to be completed.
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Rochambeaux wrote:
P500 status shows only 121? Seriously?

At this rate it will be years before it ship
I would be surprised if a reprint of Labyrinth doesn't occur about the same time as the the expansion. Most companies try not to release an expansion for a game that is out of stock ...
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Fee Weasel
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The 1,200+ orders for the expansion helps move it closer to the top of the list. It does have to compete with other p500 games and reprints as to where it fits into the production schedule.

I am positive the main game will get a reprint sooner than later and the p500 numbers only help gauge where on the list it should go. As a proven game with an upcoming expansion I'm sure it will be higher on the list than just a straight reprint without an upcoming expansion.

I have no proof of the above except what I have seen and experienced as a customer of GMT. Go read GMT's own words on the p500 page for reprints and comments about popular games. They also look at what distributors are requesting to help decide what/when a reprint happens, the p500 number is not the only factor.

Hopefully you can find an affordable copy without having to wait. In the meantime if anyone sees a new copy on the shelf are you interested in buying it as long as the FLGS hasn't jacked up the price? I'm willing to keep an eye out.
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Fee Weasel
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Misterhawk wrote:
Rochambeaux wrote:
P500 status shows only 121? Seriously?

At this rate it will be years before it ship
I would be surprised if a reprint of Labyrinth doesn't occur about the same time as the the expansion. Most companies try not to release an expansion for a game that is out of stock ...

ninjaMisterhawkninja

And this too...
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Vexille Voxhalyn
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fee_weasel wrote:
The 1,200+ orders for the expansion helps move it closer to the top of the list. It does have to compete with other p500 games and reprints as to where it fits into the production schedule.

I am positive the main game will get a reprint sooner than later and the p500 numbers only help gauge where on the list it should go. As a proven game with an upcoming expansion I'm sure it will be higher on the list than just a straight reprint without an upcoming expansion.

I have no proof of the above except what I have seen and experienced as a customer of GMT. Go read GMT's own words on the p500 page for reprints and comments about popular games. They also look at what distributors are requesting to help decide what/when a reprint happens, the p500 number is not the only factor.

Hopefully you can find an affordable copy without having to wait. In the meantime if anyone sees a new copy on the shelf are you interested in buying it as long as the FLGS hasn't jacked up the price? I'm willing to keep an eye out.
The latest GMT P500 status (October) says Labyrinth targeted Nov/Dec 2016...
 
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Fee Weasel
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Vexille wrote:
fee_weasel wrote:
The 1,200+ orders for the expansion helps move it closer to the top of the list. It does have to compete with other p500 games and reprints as to where it fits into the production schedule.

I am positive the main game will get a reprint sooner than later and the p500 numbers only help gauge where on the list it should go. As a proven game with an upcoming expansion I'm sure it will be higher on the list than just a straight reprint without an upcoming expansion.

I have no proof of the above except what I have seen and experienced as a customer of GMT. Go read GMT's own words on the p500 page for reprints and comments about popular games. They also look at what distributors are requesting to help decide what/when a reprint happens, the p500 number is not the only factor.

Hopefully you can find an affordable copy without having to wait. In the meantime if anyone sees a new copy on the shelf are you interested in buying it as long as the FLGS hasn't jacked up the price? I'm willing to keep an eye out.
The latest GMT P500 status (October) says Labyrinth targeted Nov/Dec 2016...
I think this schedule makes the date sooner than later. Plus look at the number of new games and reprints coming in the next year. I have several of these on my p500 order and some of my p500s aren't even coming in the next year.

copy/paste from GMT

Tentative Production Schedule

Here's our most current Tentative Production Schedule. We've had a few games move deeper into 2016 either because they need more testing or because of guidance from our art and production folks about what's doable within those timeframes.


Early-Mid October 2015
Non-CE Twilight Struggle Kickstarter Items
C&C Napoleonics #5: Generals, Marshalls, & Tacticians
Combat Commander Tourney Battle Pack
The US Civil War

Mid-Late November 2015
Next War: India-Pakistan
Operation Dauntless
Twilight Struggle Collector's Edition - Kickstarter
Twilight Struggle Deluxe Edition 2015 Reprint

December 2015
Liberty or Death
Talon
Thunder Alley Track Pack

January/February 2016 (Tentative)
A Distant Plain 2nd Printing
At Any Cost
Cuba Libre Reprint Edition
Eagle of Lille
FAB: Golan '73
Falling Sky
Silent Victory (ConsimPress)

March/April 2016 (Tentative)
Clash of Giants: Civil War
Grand Prix
MBT
Panzer Reprint
Silver Bayonet 25th Anniverary Edition

Possible for May-August, 2016
1846
Commancheria
Conquest of Paradise 2nd Edition
Fields of Fire (2nd Edition)
Fields of Fire Volume II - With the Old Breed
Illusions of Glory
Manoeuvre: Distant Lands
Sekigahara - 3rd Printing
Time of Crisis

Possible for September-December, 2016
Cactus Air Force
Labyrinth: The Awakening
Mr. President
No Retreat 3: France & Poland
Space Empires: Replicators
Wild Blue Yonder
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Vexille Voxhalyn
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fee_weasel wrote:
Vexille wrote:
fee_weasel wrote:
The 1,200+ orders for the expansion helps move it closer to the top of the list. It does have to compete with other p500 games and reprints as to where it fits into the production schedule.

I am positive the main game will get a reprint sooner than later and the p500 numbers only help gauge where on the list it should go. As a proven game with an upcoming expansion I'm sure it will be higher on the list than just a straight reprint without an upcoming expansion.

I have no proof of the above except what I have seen and experienced as a customer of GMT. Go read GMT's own words on the p500 page for reprints and comments about popular games. They also look at what distributors are requesting to help decide what/when a reprint happens, the p500 number is not the only factor.

Hopefully you can find an affordable copy without having to wait. In the meantime if anyone sees a new copy on the shelf are you interested in buying it as long as the FLGS hasn't jacked up the price? I'm willing to keep an eye out.
The latest GMT P500 status (October) says Labyrinth targeted Nov/Dec 2016...
I think this schedule makes the date sooner than later. Plus look at the number of new games and reprints coming in the next year. I have several of these on my p500 order and some of my p500s aren't even coming in the next year.

copy/paste from GMT

Tentative Production Schedule

Here's our most current Tentative Production Schedule. We've had a few games move deeper into 2016 either because they need more testing or because of guidance from our art and production folks about what's doable within those timeframes.


Early-Mid October 2015
Non-CE Twilight Struggle Kickstarter Items
C&C Napoleonics #5: Generals, Marshalls, & Tacticians
Combat Commander Tourney Battle Pack
The US Civil War

Mid-Late November 2015
Next War: India-Pakistan
Operation Dauntless
Twilight Struggle Collector's Edition - Kickstarter
Twilight Struggle Deluxe Edition 2015 Reprint

December 2015
Liberty or Death
Talon
Thunder Alley Track Pack

January/February 2016 (Tentative)
A Distant Plain 2nd Printing
At Any Cost
Cuba Libre Reprint Edition
Eagle of Lille
FAB: Golan '73
Falling Sky
Silent Victory (ConsimPress)

March/April 2016 (Tentative)
Clash of Giants: Civil War
Grand Prix
MBT
Panzer Reprint
Silver Bayonet 25th Anniverary Edition

Possible for May-August, 2016
1846
Commancheria
Conquest of Paradise 2nd Edition
Fields of Fire (2nd Edition)
Fields of Fire Volume II - With the Old Breed
Illusions of Glory
Manoeuvre: Distant Lands
Sekigahara - 3rd Printing
Time of Crisis

Possible for September-December, 2016
Cactus Air Force
Labyrinth: The Awakening
Mr. President
No Retreat 3: France & Poland
Space Empires: Replicators
Wild Blue Yonder
OK so it says Sept - Dec instead of Nov - Dec; my bad.

But ti doesn't mention the base game at all.
 
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Chris Schenck
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Hmm, I didn't realize it was going to be another year before we see the expansion. That'll put it nearly 2 years after it made the P500 cut. That's even slower than most Kickstarter games. Alas.
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James Resner
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cbs42 wrote:
Hmm, I didn't realize it was going to be another year before we see the expansion. That'll put it nearly 2 years after it made the P500 cut. That's even slower than most Kickstarter games. Alas.
And no telling when the base game will be reprinted...
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I suggest Volko tells GMT to put up a P500 for the second expansion (2015-) now, so we'll have it by 2020.


Seriously though, so much stuff has happened just in the past year that won't be represented by any of the cards on the expansion. I'm sure it's asking too much, but I'd be cool with a subscription purchase to yearly card packs that keep up with current events in a more timely fashion - even if it was just a dozen cards with no other components.

Anyway, it's great game. I'm very happy I own it.
 
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