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The Horus Heresy: Betrayal at Calth» Forums » General

Subject: I'm buying this game to play! rss

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M.P. O'Sullivan
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There's a lot of mention from 40K players that "90% of people are buying Calth for the plastic figs", and "no one's buying this for the game". Well, I'm buying it specifically for the game, and I definitely don't think that I'm the only one.

I love 40K. But as much as I love the 40K universe, the tactical game has always left me cold.

People talk about the costs to join the hobby, and that's definitely been a factor for me. Buying in on 40K is expensive, and I'm a guy with 2500 points of Blood Angels laying around my house. Buying in for a new player, someone that doesn't know what figs will make for a good army, is that much harder. And with the expansion of armies over the past 15-20 years (I mean, hell, Apocalypse?) it's more expensive than ever to step into the hobby.

Even more than the cost of entry though is the gameplay of 40K. A game of 40K is just so long, with so much downtime between turns, I just don't feel engaged. And the core rules have so many steps and so many fiddly little traits and abilities that they just feel overwhelming to me. I know there are players that love these rules, but I know that there are probably just as many that feel crushed by Codexes and combat rules that feel antiquated.

Calth excites the hell out of me because it's a smaller game with rules that are more streamlined. This feels like a modern design with an eye to engaging players that are excited by the 30K/40K universe but aren't excited by the options that are currently out there. We have a simple one-roll attack system here, units that have easy-to-find rules and traits with tons of reference, and an emphasis on the importance of individual models.

Honestly, this is exactly the 40K game that I've always wanted.

I'm hopeful for the success of Calth. I'm really hopeful that we'll see what some fans are gossiping about: that Calth is launch of a new game line that will see new tile sets, new missions, new figures with cards and rules packed in. A new approach from GW for a new generation of fans.
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Reggie P
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I'm in the same boat as you, incredibly excited for the game but not interested in playing 40k. It would be awesome to see more games with these mechanics or along these lines. I'm encouraged by the slight uptick in boardgames from Games Workshop in the last couple years.
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Frankie
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Likewise, curious to see the session report on Rock Paper Shotgun...
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Rog B
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same here. i love the fluff (reading the HH novels now), and the models, but the game now seems to be incredibly fiddly and the scale of armies is way too big.

i know most fans would explode if GW did a 40k-lite (a la Age Of Sigmar) but i'd actually really enjoy it.
Heck, release it as seperate rules and put it on a grid like space hulk/space crusade just so theres no confusion.

in the meantime, HH:BaC looks to fill that niche.
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Chad Egbert
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I'm excited about this too. I don't have the time or money to jump into WH 40k, but this game could give me a taste of the world. I've enjoyed Assassinorum: Execution Force so far and I'm hoping GW continues to make board games like this.
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Ray Smith
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pekin2121 wrote:
I'm excited about this too. I don't have the time or money to jump into WH 40k, but this game could give me a taste of the world. I've enjoyed Assassinorum: Execution Force so far and I'm hoping GW continues to make board games like this.
Anyone know if HH:BoC and A:EF have the same/similar game mechanics/system?
Are they compatible in any way?
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Chad Egbert
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rdsmith wrote:
pekin2121 wrote:
I'm excited about this too. I don't have the time or money to jump into WH 40k, but this game could give me a taste of the world. I've enjoyed Assassinorum: Execution Force so far and I'm hoping GW continues to make board games like this.
Anyone know if HH:BoC and A:EF have the same/similar game mechanics/system?
Are they compatible in any way?
I'm just guessing, but I would say they aren't compatible. A:EF is a co-op and HH:BoC appears to be one side against the other. I've been wrong before though...
 
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Don Johnson
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The set will not be limited afaik?
 
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Chad Egbert
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dosto wrote:
The set will not be limited afaik?
afaik?
 
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Christopher Taylor
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As far as I know, afaik.
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Mark
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I haven't played Betrayal at Calth (BaC), but I've seen and read indepth descriptions of the rules and gameplay. Space Hulk, Assassinorum, Space Crusade, and Advanced Space Crusade are games in which individual models perform actions, and interact individually with the board (terrain) individually. BaC is more like a squad level game, in which one to 3 models take the same actions at the same time, and interact with the terrain as a group. Sound familiar? Instead of occupying single model sized squares, BaC's larger hexes hold multiple models. Distances for moving and shooting are abstracted to one or two hexes, instead of 6 squares or 12 squares, etc. as with the other boardgames.

Without passing judgement, or disparaging other games, BaC is for all the world like an Age of Sigmar-ish game, transposed (confined?) to a boardgame. It looks like it could easily be ported to the tabletop environment. Which would make it a simpler squad level game than 40K ("simple" in a good way). It's very easy to believe this game was meant to be the Age of Sigmar treatment for 40K (a game I haven't played regularly in a decade). It's also possible my vestigial Ultramarine and Ork armies just may crawl out of their storage boxes and fight on a tabletop near me using these BaC rules, if I like them. Just say'n.

NOTE: Don't try to find me, I'm in the GW witness protection program,
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M.P. O'Sullivan
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rdsmith wrote:

Anyone know if HH:BoC and A:EF have the same/similar game mechanics/system?
Are they compatible in any way?
They don't seem to be compatible. BaC uses a new dice mechanic system that employs specialty dice with hit, critical hit, and defense symbols rolled in pools, and uses character stats that are different from the stat blocks of 40K.

I wouldn't be surprised if you see an inventive fan do some conversion work though and make it so you could bring in some of those models on your squad.
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Kevin Outlaw
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ZombieMark wrote:
BaC is more like a squad level game, in which one to 3 models take the same actions at the same time, and interact with the terrain as a group. Sound familiar?
Oh, right. BattleLore.



BattleLore really did spring to mind when I first saw the game: Hex-based, squad-level, scenario-driven skirmish, where you lose dice as you lose models from a unit, with cards you play from hand for tactical advantages.

I am very interested in it as a game. I want to add it to my growing black Monolith...


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Nicholas Aldrich
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I completely agree. I was (am?) a fan of GW for 16 years, playing 40k for most of them. 7th edition has turned into a mess for me, with formation crap, balance issues, rising costs, shrinking community, etc. I will never sell out but my spending has fallen considerably.

In college I had a ton of fun with small scale mini skirmish games. This is what this boardgame appears to be, but set in the even better than 40k - 30k - universe.

I am buying two sets for the purpose of playing the boardgame (going to paint up four legions). I may end up using the minis in 30k or 40k play, but that is not going to be their direct purpose. I hope that GW sees this box's success and creates more 30k boxed sets with new maps, skirmish rules, units, characters, mission, etc.
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ZombieMark wrote:
Without passing judgement, or disparaging other games, BaC is for all the world like an Age of Sigmar-ish game, transposed (confined?) to a boardgame. It looks like it could easily be ported to the tabletop environment. Which would make it a simpler squad level game than 40K ("simple" in a good way). It's very easy to believe this game was meant to be the Age of Sigmar treatment for 40K (a game I haven't played regularly in a decade). It's also possible my vestigial Ultramarine and Ork armies just may crawl out of their storage boxes and fight on a tabletop near me using these BaC rules, if I like them. Just say'n.
Well, what you're say'n sounds like a good thing.

I'm glad GW is realizing that boardgamers have money. Mebbe it's the 19+ CMON projects which showed that miniatures boardgames sell, mebbe it's the FFG licenses that have shown boardgamers exist, too. Back in ye olden days, GW released Advanced Space Crusade, Advanced HeroQuest, and Space Hulk, which used models from their Warhammer lines, but with rulesets targetted towards boardgamers. Only took 'em 30+ years to realize this is still a good idea!
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Chris Marlow
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RogB wrote:

i know most fans would explode if GW did a 40k-lite (a la Age Of Sigmar) but i'd actually really enjoy it.
Heck, release it as seperate rules and put it on a grid like space hulk/space crusade just so theres no confusion.

This would be a fantastic idea I think. Just what is needed to replace the bloated monster that the 40K game has become.
A grid system like Dust Tactics would be good. In fact some farseeing genius of games design has already done half the work for them with Cosmic Dust
Available as a free download off the Dust section of this very site.
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Rog B
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haha I wasnt aware of that. genius indeed, nice work!
 
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Mark
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Sam and Max wrote:
ZombieMark wrote:
Without passing judgement, or disparaging other games, BaC is for all the world like an Age of Sigmar-ish game, transposed (confined?) to a boardgame. It looks like it could easily be ported to the tabletop environment. Which would make it a simpler squad level game than 40K ("simple" in a good way). It's very easy to believe this game was meant to be the Age of Sigmar treatment for 40K (a game I haven't played regularly in a decade). It's also possible my vestigial Ultramarine and Ork armies just may crawl out of their storage boxes and fight on a tabletop near me using these BaC rules, if I like them. Just say'n.
Well, what you're say'n sounds like a good thing.

I'm glad GW is realizing that boardgamers have money. Mebbe it's the 19+ CMON projects which showed that miniatures boardgames sell, mebbe it's the FFG licenses that have shown boardgamers exist, too. Back in ye olden days, GW released Advanced Space Crusade, Advanced HeroQuest, and Space Hulk, which used models from their Warhammer lines, but with rulesets targetted towards boardgamers. Only took 'em 30+ years to realize this is still a good idea!
To me, those particular boardgame rulesets are targeted for miniatures gamers (ranges, LOS, similar tactics, etc.) Oh, and miniatures.
 
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bought it for the game as well. hopefully, it'll be good.

can't wait until they re-release Battlefleet Gothic and their other old boardgames!
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Mark
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$20 on eBay. Everything but miniatures. I already have painted 40K (vice 30K) proxies. Pulled the trigger to be the first Geek on the block to get it on the table. When the flood hits, this may look like I got took.
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John Paul Messerly
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I'm also buying it for the game. I've always loved the uninverse but hated the outdated rules. Comparing stats in a chart is so 1980's... Even most hex and counter wargames don't do that anymore!

I've really enjoyed Assasinorum Execution Force and Age of Sigmar but this looks like they have finally taken it to the next level... custom dice!

The board tiles are breathtaking. I'm really impressed by how dynamic the lighting is yet how well they tile together.
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Exupery Ether
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I have also bought it for the game alone.

I have been collecting and painting 40K armies for over 12 years now. I have fully painted armies for Death Korps of Krieg, Death Guard (Forge World), Orks (Forge World), Tau (GW and Forge World), Eldar (GW and Forge World), Sisters of Battle (GW and Forge World models).

That being said, I have ALWAYS been profoundly turned off by the gameplay of a classic 40K game. So many rules to take into consideration, so much fiddliness. In 12 years of collecting 40K I think I have only played like 2 or 3 games. That's how awful and nightmarish are the rules of this game for me. Sure, to each its own. I've seen 10-12 old years playing 40K with no problem at all. They get the rules, the flow of the game and so on. Good for them. I am not saying the game is hard to understand. It is not. But my, there are definitely a ton of rules to take in. I just don't have the time and the stamina for it. That's why I have happily embraced Age of Sigmar. Now that's a game I can play. And yes, we (by we I mean my family) had / have a blast with it.

I feel the veterans and I understand why they were so disappointed with Age of Sigmar but what can I do? Or what should I do? Cry on their shoulder, to show my support for their loss of Warhammer Fantasy? Sorry, I am not doing that. Perhaps it is time for them to let it go. Because I LOVE Age of Sigmar. And I don't think I am the only person in the whole world who liked Age of Sigmar.

So, yes, I am currently painting the Word Bearers army from Betrayal at Calth and I am sooo much looking forward to play it with my friends and my son.

Now, please, GW, re-release Necromunda! arrrh
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