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Dungeon Saga: Dwarf King's Quest» Forums » General

Subject: Should i canceal my Dungeon Saga pre order? rss

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sean thomopson
United Kingdom
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I pre ordered dungeon Saga & the Adventure companion as to play thru the base game solo & the idea of sandbox campaign to construct my own campaigns etc....... I have head so much bad press about the Adventure companion & the way the invisible overlord plays I am seriously considering cancelling my order. I don't really want to commit to a game that by the sound of it cannot be played solo. Those people who already have the game can you give my your insight please .
 
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Loig Roumois
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well you CAN play solo. it just does not live up to the expectations of the community and to what was promised/announced by the game designer(Jake) and Mantic...
the AC will most likely get an errata very soon. Maybe you can get it cheaper from eBay from some disgruntled backers...
I know I'll keep mine! I think the content is just fine and until I don't have a dozen sessions under my belt I won't complain
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Henrik Grabner
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Hi Sean!

Unfortunately, I cannot comment on the solo play yet as I have not tried it.
Sandbox is not a problem in my opinion.

I do not believe, you get the adventure companion (AC) if you just purchase the base game. It is a separate purchase. Someone please set me straight if I am wrong.
From what I have seen (only glanced over it) and what others have written (see posts from Brad P, he really went deep into it) I would not get the AC yet. Wait half a year for that one (if this is enough).

If you have a gaming group, this game is gold. The base rules are solid. The miniatures are fine (might need to be straightened out with hot water). Playing with some buddies is great fun. We have not regretted getting the game.

Hope this helps.

Henrik
 
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sean thomopson
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Sorry yes I've pre ordered the AC as well as the base game with the intent to play solo (I believe you need the AC to play solo?), ive not much of a gaming group here.
 
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wulung chuanfa
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my pre-order required pre-payment so I am sort of in the same boat as the kickstarters. I too ordered both the base game and AC for solo play and am hopefully it will work out well either with official rules or the many fan made ones that people are working hard on.

Take care,

Michael
 
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Brad P
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You can read the adventurers companion now if you want. A link to an updated pdf is in the latest update on the dungeon saga kickstarter page. Be warned that this pdf already includes updates listed in the errata above that a physical copy from a pre order is very unlikely to. It might but if they delivered correct copies to the pre order people I think it would look very bad on their treatment of backers.

As to the quality of the AC, well there is some sand, I did not see a box though. Pretty much every section has noticable flaws. Some are easily correctable some not so.
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King of the Wood
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Please list your flaws and fixes.
 
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Brad P
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Troll66 wrote:
Please list your flaws and fixes.
http://twilight40k.blogspot.com/2015/11/dungeon-saga-adventu...

There is also a link to my whole list of Dungeon Saga material at the bottom of that post.

I do not even worry about the typo stuff which is listed in the top of the List Your AC Errors here post located in the same forum as this post.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1464918/post-your-adventure...
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Sergio Torres
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I don't regret having backed the project, as the base game is solid.

If you are thinking in the game exclusively for solo, you'd rather have a look at those rules as currently stand:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10049744/DS%20Adv%20Comp...

BTW: Sword and Sorcery or Gloomhaven may be another options for playing solo.
 
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Christopher Grace
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paintthomo wrote:

I pre ordered dungeon Saga & the Adventure companion as to play thru the base game solo & the idea of sandbox campaign to construct my own campaigns etc....... I have head so much bad press about the Adventure companion & the way the invisible overlord plays I am seriously considering cancelling my order. I don't really want to commit to a game that by the sound of it cannot be played solo. Those people who already have the game can you give my your insight please .
Yes, you should. The 1st run of these books will be severely flawed, especially for your purposes (not to mention the PDF of the AC book is freely available online now). You should wait for a reprint, and hopefully get your money's worth.
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Sergio Torres
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krztoff wrote:

(not to mention the PDF of the AC book is freely available online now)
FYI, the adventure companion, as a product, also includes five decks of cards. Some of them add to the base game, some others are needed for solo, dungeon generator and the "go to the city" phase of the campaign mode.
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sean thomopson
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Thanks guys I still not sure what to do, I am sorely temped to cancel & jump onto Sword & Sorcery KS. The whole thing about DS that hooked me with was the sandbox AC stuff. If this is floored then not sure. Can you play the base game with a IO solo ok?
 
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Brad P
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paintthomo wrote:
Thanks guys I still not sure what to do, I am sorely temped to cancel & jump onto Sword & Sorcery KS. The whole thing about DS that hooked me with was the sandbox AC stuff. If this is floored then not sure. Can you play the base game with a IO solo ok?
Some people say the IO is great, others do not like it, all I can definitely is that the book provides no examples of how to use it and I do not find the description very clear.
 
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gary gee
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Microbadge: Welcome to the Dream, Hunter!Microbadge: Folklore fanMicrobadge: Gloomhaven fanMicrobadge: Dark Souls: The Board Game fanMicrobadge: Geek Regular
ive been using IO since I got the game more or less...no problems using it here very easy to use and can be quite challenging too.just remember to put the IO cards in from each expansion as you play them.this adds more variety and challenge...you can also add "valandor" IO cards to core set as they both are undead related
 
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Thorsten Schröder
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Re: Should i canceal my Dungeon Saga pre order?
I was waiting for a thread like this. People were complaining so loud about the typos (and maybe ambiguities) in the AC and about the bend miniatures that non-KS-Backers now think that the whole game is crap.

As far as I can see the game is fine... it's better that that: it's great!

Yeah you may have to use an Errata for the AC (BTW every other book (rules, questbook, Expansion-Books) are fine).
Most of the time using your head and reading the rules as they are intended to be and not lawyering as they are written works wonders! You'll find it works great!
I too am not able to comment on the AI-system but I'm confident that it works. Jake (the designer) mentione a while back on the blog that an AI-system for a complicated game either has to be VERY complex (to the extend of feeling like doing your taxes) or you have to make some decsions on your own.

My advice: don't listen to the noise of the glass-half-empty people. Especially when the glass is full!
 
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David Russell
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i know what you mean as i pre-ordered this (now delayed to end november) and the negative noise is making me rethink. i only ordered the base game though.

i am planning to use in a group so i think this makes a good option for me, i may get the adventurers book but only once the issues are ironed out.

for a purely solo option i would think sword & sorcery is maybe a better option - although given its a year away you may as well get dungeon saga to play anyway in the meantime

 
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Silver Bowen
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If I had it to do over again I would wait for retail, then buy a used copy from someone who backed on KS or preordered it (if I wanted it at all; I haven't gotten my pledge yet and won't know for sure if I like it until I actually play it, nor will I know whether it was a worthwhile purchase until then). This may not be much of an option for non-USA folks, though.
 
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sean thomopson
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Earlier on I was coming really close to cancelling my pre order & backing S&S on kick starter. Some of those posts made about it all just being noise is making me swing the other way!! I think I will hold out. I really like the look of the game & the miniatures its all the talk about the AC & IO being poor is making me doubt....
 
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Sergio Torres
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Well, everyone will have their opinion.

The core game is great fun, so "normal" players will like it.
People who were trying to find the ultimate dungeon crawler to revisit their memories as children playing heroquest with a perfectly designed and modern board game (as myself) won't be fully satisfied. Yet I doubt anyone of those will be unable to enjoy the very good parts of the game.

That's what I wanted to express in the "conclusion" paragraphs of the review I wrote.

Why don't you just download and read the published pdf and judge by yourself?

You will get the impression where the rough-edges are, while being able to conclude if it's acceptable or not for you.

IMHO, the two published reviews of the game, the online pdf, and the videos in youtube showing gameplay, I think are enough to see if you will like the game or not in it's current state.
 
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Allan
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paintthomo wrote:

Earlier on I was coming really close to cancelling my pre order & backing S&S on kick starter. Some of those posts made about it all just being noise is making me swing the other way!! I think I will hold out. I really like the look of the game & the miniatures its all the talk about the AC & IO being poor is making me doubt....
I wouldn't discount it as simply "just noise". There are some legitimate concerns being raised, particularly about quality control, the somewhat disappointing rules and lack of content in the Adventurers Companion.

The think to keep in mind is that a lot of people backed because of the AC and the promises of a deep and expansive game that were made both before and during the kickstarter. What was delivered, while technically fulfills the requirements of the kickstarter, does not live up to what we were told it would be. Some backers feel burned by Mantic right now so their reactions might be a little overblown, but it would be foolish to completely discount them.
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Ciaran M
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I think what we need here on BGG is a separate listing for the DS: Adventurer's Companion as an expansion an as per their future retail separation.


The base game has received wholesale positive opinion thus far and the Adv Companion (AC) has clearly not.

Whilst we've all got the AC as part of our combined KS pledge, there will hopefully be many people in future picking up the retail package of the base game only and to continue to lump poor AC feedback alongside the Dungeon Saga base game is unfair and could further damage backers investment in the game itself.



Consider:

Continued bad feedback on the AC editing and rules quality (and missing elements!) being voiced in the Dungeon Saga general forums here on BGG will ultimately create negative feelings by association for the DS base game and drive away future, potential retail customers.

Reduction in retail numbers lessens Mantic's interest in supporting the product and revisiting the AC for KS backers and retail.

Reduced interest from Mantic leads to reduction in advertising/publicity that potentially affects AC development and the potential player pool.

Which then further hits backers and players who have a strong & vested interest in the game and system as a whole and the version of the AC as it is currently produced, it's unreleased elements and it's future potential.

We then end up with a continued poor AC implementation and a dwindling pool of players buying and playing the game.

If we want things to improve, the game needs to be successful for Mantic, so the good quality, good gameplay story of the base game needs to be clearly seen and heard.


---

So by all means, we should continue to highlight the problems with the Adv Companion (and any other add-on's for that matter), but it needs to be in it's proper place.

I'm very unhappy with the AC myself as it was a major part of my backing the project, but I want the system & setting to work and improve and not become another memory like Heroquest.


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Martin Gallo
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Not sure if there is a typo in the thread title or you are trying to hide that you no longer want to be a backer. ("conceal" vs. "cancel")
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Brad P
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ezeqiel wrote:

I think what we need here on BGG is a separate listing for the DS: Adventurer's Companion as an expansion an as per their future retail separation.


The base game has received wholesale positive opinion thus far and the Adv Companion (AC) has clearly not.

Whilst we've all got the AC as part of our combined KS pledge, there will hopefully be many people in future picking up the retail package of the base game only and to continue to lump poor AC feedback alongside the Dungeon Saga base game is unfair and could further damage backers investment in the game itself.



Consider:

Continued bad feedback on the AC editing and rules quality (and missing elements!) being voiced in the Dungeon Saga general forums here on BGG will ultimately create negative feelings by association for the DS base game and drive away future, potential retail customers.

Reduction in retail numbers lessens Mantic's interest in supporting the product and revisiting the AC for KS backers and retail.

Reduced interest from Mantic leads to reduction in advertising/publicity that potentially affects AC development and the potential player pool.

Which then further hits backers and players who have a strong & vested interest in the game and system as a whole and the version of the AC as it is currently produced, it's unreleased elements and it's future potential.

We then end up with a continued poor AC implementation and a dwindling pool of players buying and playing the game.

If we want things to improve, the game needs to be successful for Mantic, so the good quality, good gameplay story of the base game needs to be clearly seen and heard.


---

So by all means, we should continue to highlight the problems with the Adv Companion (and any other add-on's for that matter), but it needs to be in it's proper place.

I'm very unhappy with the AC myself as it was a major part of my backing the project, but I want the system & setting to work and improve and not become another memory like Heroquest.


Sort of puts backers in a little Catch 22. If we do not try to hold mantic accountable for their failure in fulfilling their AC promises and their failure on the Dungeon Journal content they will keep doing it but if you bash the game to much then they just drop the whole thing.

I think BGG needs manufacturer specific forum pages making it easier to get the information out about things like bad kickstarter fulfillment and such.
 
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Silver Bowen
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ezeqiel wrote:

I think what we need here on BGG is a separate listing for the DS: Adventurer's Companion as an expansion an as per their future retail separation.

-snip-

If we want things to improve, the game needs to be successful for Mantic, so the good quality, good gameplay story of the base game needs to be clearly seen and heard.
First para - I definitely agree. In fact, I'll go further: I wish every game that was produced via Kickstarter had a separate review page for the Kickstarter version.

Second para - Strongly disagree The success of the KS has shown the demand for a Heroquest style dungeon crawler. (See the recently wrapped Sword and Sorcery KS for an example of another company following suite.) If Mantic abandons DS (unlikely), there will still be other options. Any company which produces a substandard product deserve to do poorly at retail, otherwise the manufacturer has zero incentive to improve said product. I see no gain to be had as a consumer from rewarding incompetence (the AC in particular).
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Thorsten Schröder
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Yeah! I bet they are being sloppy on purpose because they can. They are propably laughing right now because the idiot backers bought the stupid AC.
I bet they are even proud ecause they are selling crappy stuff and they WANT to keep on doing mistakes!!!
I suggest electroshocks to teach them not to do that again.
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