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Subject: Quick question on crits rss

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Keith White
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First fight, threw a founding stone, automatic crit that cut off the lion's tail. Is an auto crit also an auto wound, or do you still have to roll to penetrate the lion's toughness (6) to score a wound?
 
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Joshua Nash
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Reading the founding stone card carefully, you'll find it says throwing the stone gives both an auto-crit and auto-wound.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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I have to thank Kingdom Death: Monster for finally knowing the exact number of penises I can tolerate in a miniature (surprisingly, that number is not zero)
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But more importantly, you can only crit when you succeed at wounding, so if you crit, you have already wounded by definition (it may not be true the contrary).

A quick addendum: if you have negative luck, let's say -1, and roll a lantern 10 to wound, you will still wound (because lantern 10 is always success), but you won't have the chance to crit, right? (I have no access to the rulebook right now, but I seem to remember that, when describing negative Luck, it's explicitly stated that there are cases in which it's impossible to crit).
 
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Keith White
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Ah, ok. Thank you!
 
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Oscar
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Just to add, you can only make a critical hit if you wound a location with a critical wound effect.^^

Page 215

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Damien M
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t3clis wrote:
But more importantly, you can only crit when you succeed at wounding
Well, not really. If you attack with a 0 strength weapon against a monster with 20 toughness, you will still crit on a 10. Unless I completely missed something in the book?

t3clis wrote:
A quick addendum: if you have negative luck, let's say -1, and roll a lantern 10 to wound, you will still wound (because lantern 10 is always success), but you won't have the chance to crit, right?
Correct.
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Joshua Nash
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If you roll a crit (lantern) on a hit roll, you still have to roll against toughness to see if you wound. If no, crit roll is wasted. If yes, you get the crit wound result on the hit location card.
 
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Drake Coker
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JPN38 wrote:
If you roll a crit (lantern) on a hit roll, you still have to roll against toughness to see if you wound. If no, crit roll is wasted. If yes, you get the crit wound result on the hit location card.
It's confusing to call a lantern hit roll a "crit". The official term is "Perfect Hit". Perfect Hits are always a successful hit regardless of modifiers and may have additional effects with some weapons.

"Critical" is reserved for the Wound roll. A lantern roll is usually a Critical wound, but it *is* affected by modifiers. This means that if you have negative Luck, you can be prevented from ever rolling a Critical wound (other than something automatic like the Founding Stone).
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Stu Jones
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JPN38 wrote:
If you roll a crit (lantern) on a hit roll, you still have to roll against toughness to see if you wound. If no, crit roll is wasted. If yes, you get the crit wound result on the hit location card.
Emphasis mine, here, but...

Despite the terminology issue of calling it a crit on the hit roll, your description of the process is also incorrect.

The first roll, the HIT roll, has nothing to do with the crit portion of a wound. You roll to hit, and precluding anything referring to a perfect hit, there's nothing here other than answering "did you hit or not?".

The first roll must be a hit to have a second "wound" roll, which then has to be a crit (a lantern only if there are no luck modifiers) to get the critical wound. If you hit (even with a lantern) and don't get a crit on the wound roll, you only do a regular wound.

If you follow your statement, you would get a perfect hit, followed by any wound roll that beats toughness, which is incorrect.
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Joshua Nash
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Well, crap, I've been playing wrong!

So to be clear, crits only occur from a wound roll?
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Joseph Nudi
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JPN38 wrote:
Well, crap, I've been playing wrong!

So to be clear, crits only occur from a wound roll?
Correct. An above poster noted that Perfect Hits only mean that you connected (and trigger any Perfect Hit abilities/bonuses etc). You still need to Critical Wound in order to get a Crit.

Hit/Perfect Hit (impacted by Accuracy and monster Evasion)
Wound/Critical Wound (impacted by Luck)
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Joshua Nash
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I want to add that the rules are quite clear and really well written. I just somehow got my perfect hit/crit roles swapped.

Thanks all!
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JPN38 wrote:
Reading the founding stone card carefully, you'll find it says throwing the stone gives both an auto-crit and auto-wound.
Where exactly does it say so? It just says it auto-hit (obvious, for no wound or crit can happen without a previous hit) and inflict a critical wound, so I do not understand where it does say that you also inflict a regular wound (=remove an AI card from the monster).

I'd be grateful if you could please clarify...

 
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Ethan Nicholas
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Shu1984 wrote:
JPN38 wrote:
Reading the founding stone card carefully, you'll find it says throwing the stone gives both an auto-crit and auto-wound.
Where exactly does it say so? It just says it auto-hit (obvious, for no wound or crit can happen without a previous hit) and inflict a critical wound, so I do not understand where it does say that you also inflict a regular wound (=remove an AI card from the monster).

I'd be grateful if you could please clarify...
Your understanding is correct. A founding stone just gives you an automatic hit that counts as a crit, it does not wound if there is no crit section on the hit location.
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Drake Coker
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Shu1984 wrote:
JPN38 wrote:
Reading the founding stone card carefully, you'll find it says throwing the stone gives both an auto-crit and auto-wound.
Where exactly does it say so? It just says it auto-hit (obvious, for no wound or crit can happen without a previous hit) and inflict a critical wound, so I do not understand where it does say that you also inflict a regular wound (=remove an AI card from the monster).

I'd be grateful if you could please clarify...

1. Critical Wounds always cause a Wound in addition to the critical effect. It does not matter how you got the critical wound. (Glossary: Critical Wound)

2. Critical Wounds only occur on Hit Locations that have a critical effect text (some monsters are nearly uncritable due to having few critable locations). (Glossary: Critical Wound)

3. Note that an "automatic critical" does nothing at all to a Hit Location with no critical effect text (not even a Wound). This is because the Critical Wound does not occur at all. (Clarification from the designer)

4. When evaluating Wound rolls, first check to see if it is a Critical Wound (roll + net-Luck >= 10 and the HL has a critical effect). If so, apply the critical effect and a Wound to the monster and you are done. If no Critical Wound, then evaluate if the roll Wounds (roll + net-Strength >= Toughness or the roll is a natural 10; a natural roll of 1 always fails). If so, apply a Wound to the monster. Do it in this order and you'll never go wrong.
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Crayon
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I fear I may have been making the game harder for myself, though my method of play seems to be in keeping with the established rules. I would appreciate some clarification from an experienced player.

I play that for a critical wound to happen (assuming no monster luck bonus):

- a lantern 10 must be rolled; or
- that the combined luck and wound roll must equal 10, and that this number must beat the toughness of the monster.
For example: If the monster has a toughness of 10 and the attacking survivor a luck of 2, then a roll of 8 would not cause a critical wound unless the survivor could add 2 strength to the roll via equipment or natural stats.

Is this wrong? It doesn't make sense to me that you could have a survivor critically wound without beating the toughness of the monster - that's the whole point and power of the lantern 10.

Surely if I am playing wrong then luck is massively OP...

Thanks in advance for any discussion :-)
 
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Drake Coker
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kieranthephat wrote:
I fear I may have been making the game harder for myself, though my method of play seems to be in keeping with the established rules. I would appreciate some clarification from an experienced player.

I play that for a critical wound to happen (assuming no monster luck bonus):

- a lantern 10 must be rolled; or
- that the combined luck and wound roll must equal 10, and that this number must beat the toughness of the monster.
For example: If the monster has a toughness of 10 and the attacking survivor a luck of 2, then a roll of 8 would not cause a critical wound unless the survivor could add 2 strength to the roll via equipment or natural stats.

Is this wrong? It doesn't make sense to me that you could have a survivor critically wound without beating the toughness of the monster - that's the whole point and power of the lantern 10.

Surely if I am playing wrong then luck is massively OP...

Thanks in advance for any discussion :-)
I think this might be a common mistake. Other than using the same roll, the check for Critical Wound and regular Wound are unrelated. The first only uses Luck and whether or not the HL has a critical effect. The later uses Strength & Toughness and can automatically succeed (10) or fail (1) on the natural roll.

There is one important interaction though: a successful Critical Wound supersedes the regular Wound since a Critical Wound always Wounds anyhow.

Luck can be pretty strong, but it isn't all that easy to stack and certain monsters just laugh at it.
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Mauro Moura
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The whole attack process goes like this:

Check to hit - roll a number of d10s equal to your speed + the weapons speed (the first number on the weapon) add your acuracy and subtract the monster's evasion. Check against your weapon accuracy (the second number from top to bottom), every roll that equal or surpassed that number is a hit, lantern 10s are Perfect Hits (some skills/finghting arts and stuff activate on perfect hits) and are always hits. For every hit you draw a Hit Location.

Check to Wound - select a Hit Location then roll 1d10. Add your luck to these rolls (pay atentiont to the deadly skill on your weapons) and subtract the monster luck, did this result in 10 or more ? If yes check to see if the Hit Location has a crit box. If yes you criticaly wounded the monster, apply any critical wound effects pertinent to that Hit Location, ignore reactions, deal 1 damage to the monster then discard that Hit Location. If not proceed to the next step. Add your strength to the rolls and check against the monster toughness, any result that equal or eceeds the monster toughness or any lanter 10s result in a wound, deal 1 damage and activate any pertinent reactions on the Hit Location, after the reactions discard that Hit Location. Repeat this process till you have resolved every Hit Location drawn (or till your attack is cancelled due to a reaction or whatever).

Pages 74 and 75 of the rulebook explain this process in deatils.
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